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Old 22-06-2012, 17:34   #451
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Wouldnt object if they were better, but we did sell more at Sanctuary Cove than any other manufacturer (as far as I am aware). So we continue to go okay in the current market.

What I can also say is that our second hand sales remain strong, perhaps because we honour warranties irrespective of change of ownership.
That's great news Factor, I was worried you guys might be in trouble with everything else.

As for warranties I think Seawind can probably afford to be generous as the high quality of their product means they probably don't get may claims.

If money was no object I would get a Lavezzi 40 made in Australia or NZ.
Mind you the way I'm heading I might eventually have that LOL.
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Old 22-06-2012, 17:42   #452
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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My boat was ordered and delivered to Australia through the Aus distributor to the best of my knowedge.
Been trying to resolve an agreed factory issue since 2010.
Have given up as the next step was a good old fashioned legal battle.
I did not see taking on a massive French company as an option.
Expect no help after the cheque has cleared and you will be fine.
Hi DD,

I agree on the legal front it will cost you more than it's worth also these guys have been sued so many times now it's water off a ducks back.

The problem is usually that the factory won't pay and the local distributor cops all the grief and they can't do much about it except pay themselves.
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Old 23-06-2012, 01:21   #453
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

From Gladstone, we researched for three years whilst we renovated our house and sold it.
Went to the States and looked at shortlisted boats, went to Caribbean and checked out a couple.
Came back to Australia the house sold at the same time we shortlisted 4 boats in Spain, Turkey and Croatia and as you know we bought in Croatia.

The boats here in the Med seem to be well looked after, certainly better than the others we have seen. The charter boats cop a hell of a flogging, their anchoring practices and engine/gearbox treatment is terrible, it's flatout or not at all.

We have seen some very nice 380's here and they don't get much use (cold winters) It comes down to how far away do you want to start your cruising?

Lagoons outnumber all other brands here, the economy is depressed people are worried, we are heading down to Montenegro then Greece, Greece is in all kinds of financial trouble it would be worthwhile checking that market out for sure......
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Old 23-06-2012, 02:31   #454
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I looked at a 5 year old Bahia 46 on Hamilton island ex charter before buying and it was ready to be scrapped.
The boat was complete rubbish,i actually wonder how it got that bad in 5-6 years?
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Old 23-06-2012, 03:59   #455
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Well, a volume produced car would be ready to scrap after 5 years in a rental fleet too. Heavy, sometime careless use. Bad fleet management in my view. Bahia's are quite nice, but not bullet proof.
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Old 23-06-2012, 05:10   #456
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Our philosophy was to buy a sound boat in charter at a price considerably below that of an equivalent private owned boat, and invest in new gear with the difference. I believe we paid about 40 to 50k Euros less for the boat and so far we have spent 25k Euros for new engines, cushions and sails paid mostly from the charter return. Yes, charter boats have a hard life but we prefer a boat that has been used hard and maintained to one little used. Engines and auxilliary systems deteriorate far more from lack of use. Our 9 year old Athena has done 38,000 nm and is still booked continuously 6 months/year. Of course, not all charter companies ask sensible prices for ex-charter boats, but in general they are more realistic than loving private owners.
Of course, the biggest factor affecting price is usually the exchange rate when buying abroad, and we find that time spent getting the best rate is more productive than shaving a few k off an unwilling owner.
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Old 23-06-2012, 09:02   #457
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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+1 for for Seawind, definitely worth noting in your files
+1 for the 1250, but its outa reach just now!

Ditto!!
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Old 26-06-2012, 21:18   #458
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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I looked at a 5 year old Bahia 46 on Hamilton island ex charter before buying and it was ready to be scrapped.
The boat was complete rubbish,i actually wonder how it got that bad in 5-6 years?
It really depends on the charter company and how the boat is treated.
All boats need regular maintenance and use.
If the boat is chartered hard and not maintained it will suffer.

As far as brands go most of the stuff that fails and gives you grief is supplied by generic vendors so many brands have the same components.

Not using a boat can be even worse, after buying a boat which sat on the marina for years I found that a lot of stuff was corroded or leaked.
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Old 26-06-2012, 22:53   #459
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Well it was owned by the biggest!
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Old 26-06-2012, 23:12   #460
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Hmmmm ... I guess it all depends on what you call "ready to be scrapped". I bought a L380 from Hamilton last year. Yep I have replaced & upgraded a fair bit ... but no way would I have called it ready to be scrapped.

Yep the motors have done a few hours but they still purr (I am changing the oil & filters every 50 hours for the time being to get some good stuff in), I have replaced the sails, bilge pumps, refrigeration, batteries, lots of wiring, serviced water pumps etc etc.

The price was right (for me) & I actually appreciate the fact that I'm learning all the systems on the boat as I drag her out of the scrap heap.

Put it this way ... at the price it meant I was able to get into a L380 now. I would still be dreaming otherwise.

Maybe I'm just a scrap merchant

Anyway .. everybody has their reasons for how they purchase! I don't regret ours & we have been enjoying it immensely. Take a look at some of our photos on the Yahoo Lagoon Owners Forum.

Dave - seabreeze - L380 #241
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Old 27-06-2012, 00:04   #461
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Hmmmm ... I guess it all depends on what you call "ready to be scrapped". I bought a L380 from Hamilton last year. Yep I have replaced & upgraded a fair bit ... but no way would I have called it ready to be scrapped.

Yep the motors have done a few hours but they still purr (I am changing the oil & filters every 50 hours for the time being to get some good stuff in), I have replaced the sails, bilge pumps, refrigeration, batteries, lots of wiring, serviced water pumps etc etc.

The price was right (for me) & I actually appreciate the fact that I'm learning all the systems on the boat as I drag her out of the scrap heap.

Put it this way ... at the price it meant I was able to get into a L380 now. I would still be dreaming otherwise.

Maybe I'm just a scrap merchant

Anyway .. everybody has their reasons for how they purchase! I don't regret ours & we have been enjoying it immensely. Take a look at some of our photos on the Yahoo Lagoon Owners Forum.

Dave - seabreeze - L380 #241
Well said...and well done Dave.

We'll 'keep an eye open' for Seabreaze when we're cruising your way. Sadly though, some works (shoreside) here plus a couple of CatNirvana's floating exhibitions will probably mean we won't reach North Qld this year.

In any event, keep up that "enjoying it immensely" bit!
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Old 27-06-2012, 00:28   #462
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Well said...and well done Dave.

!
Ditto!
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Old 27-06-2012, 04:12   #463
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Well there was a split in the hull about 400 mm long that you could see through, air cond not working, entire wrap around window crazed with next to 0% visibility inside.
Every valve and thread corroded so bad they looked like big fur balls.
The furler was finished.
The genset covered in rust up to the point of every bolt would have needed vice grips to try and turn them.
All hoses gone.
Mould throughout
Woodwork varnish gone needed it all resanded and revarnished.
All internal fittings doorhandles, lights etc pitted with corrosion.
Stained kitchen benches.
Rope clutches and winches all worn smooth.

Thats just what i remember.

I am sure there are good boats available but to be too scared to turn any valve because it would have snapped off in your hand, no thanks!
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Old 27-06-2012, 06:01   #464
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Wow ... I too would have walked (run) away from that one.

Maybe I was lucky .... but after doing all due diligence including a 2 day sea trial including stay aboard & out of water survey which showed no signs of any structural damage above or below & was given a "good buy" verdict by the surveyor at my negotiated price & then handing the "largest" my list of things that needed repair / replacement, it all turned out extremely well.

My dealings with the "largest" were very satisfying in the end. Then again its only just $$$ for them. I found them very obliging in terms of final price & fixing everything.

So yes, I agree that there are good boats available. Still I knew what I was getting myself into.

Oh yes the windows on seabreeze were hard to see out of (though not a real lot of crazing). That's a result of the charter guys using brooms to scrub everything in prep for the next charter. A few hours polishing on ours has fixed that. Crazing is a natural outcome of living in the tropics.

Mould is also a given in the tropics. But they should have had the boat cleaned up before your inspection as they did with ours.

Were you dealing through a broker? What time of the year was it?

If it was peak charter season then maybe they didn't give it a priority to have it spick & span. I know that they spent 2 days spit & polishing ours before we arrived for the sea trials.

I got to know some of the maintenance guys when I was down there & they are run off their feet & are very "guided" in what they have to do & when.

Not trying to make excuses, just my observations after spending 5 days in total down there seeing what goes on.

As I said I too would have walked away from that one.

Just trying to say that maybe we shouldn't brand all ex charter boats as scrap heaps. Sure they have had a thorough use, but not all have been trashed. It still comes down to the buyer performing all checks.

Dave

seabreeze - L380 #241




Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
Well there was a split in the hull about 400 mm long that you could see through, air cond not working, entire wrap around window crazed with next to 0% visibility inside.
Every valve and thread corroded so bad they looked like big fur balls.
The furler was finished.
The genset covered in rust up to the point of every bolt would have needed vice grips to try and turn them.
All hoses gone.
Mould throughout
Woodwork varnish gone needed it all resanded and revarnished.
All internal fittings doorhandles, lights etc pitted with corrosion.
Stained kitchen benches.
Rope clutches and winches all worn smooth.

Thats just what i remember.

I am sure there are good boats available but to be too scared to turn any valve because it would have snapped off in your hand, no thanks!
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Old 27-06-2012, 06:11   #465
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Totally agree, i had tried to buy 2 ex charter cats and made serious offers on them before getting our cat.
I could not understand how this boat was passing survey??

All 5 yo plus boats need things done and replaced.
The boat i saw was through a broker and ready to go out on charter too when i inspected it, so it was presented as good as possible.

Plenty of great ex charter boats around, better to use than have them sit there going all unlubricated.

Love the 380 great cat
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