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Old 21-06-2012, 21:18   #436
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Grey imports is a meaningful term in respect of cars because auto manufacturers have real dealer networks that actually service the vehicles.

For boats 'grey import' is a meaningless term as their brokers really act as independent contractors. If something breaks, usually a third party yard will fix it, not the broker. Anyone who's had to deal with a warranty claim on a yacht will understand exactly what the difference is!

That aside, it seems that the market locally is limping along. A lot of boats have been on the market for over a year. Smaller boats (< 35ft) seem to sell but the larger yachts seem to just sit on the market. Mooring space is in short supply so that may have something to do with it.
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Old 21-06-2012, 21:25   #437
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Thank you for your replies. Much appreciated.

Golly Gosh, I have a Grey import,

Why you ask, Because I could not afford to buy a Catamaran in Australia and still retire on the money I have in hand, After 49 years in the workforce,

Yes I did look and quite extensively as well, Google is my friend, Hahahahaha

I could have bought a decent cat in Oz, But I would not have had any money left to retire on, It would have taken all my resources, Totally,

A Second hand Prout 44 foot was $300.000-00 Very nice boat too, $8000-00 extra per year, just to park it some where, But it did have uncurable leaks in the windows, ?????

The Seawind with the folding doors on the back, $500,000-00 Then all the extra's,
That needed to be added,

New Gemini. $280.000-00 Plus all the extra's. Another $50.000-00 approx, dinghy, Electronics Etc, Thats in Melbourne already,

My American made 2003 Gemini, Cost me $150.000-00 With all the bells and whistles, Nav gear, Electronics, Enclosed cockpit. It had every thing and more,
Fully self contained, Solar, wind gen, The only thing it did not have was an electric winch for the anchor,

Both anchors were crap, but I didnt know that, It had been tied to a mooring Buoy for 5 years,

It cost me approx $20,000-00 to get it here, Fully imported to Australia and officially in my name as the owner,

Plane fares to Fiji, Accomodation in Fiji, Car hire and Hotel in Suva doing the tourist thing, Food, Extra bits I bought personally for the boat, Aussie Epirb, Flares, PFD 1's
Sail Chute,

GST, Immigration, Pest control, AQIS Fees. Diesel. Petrol, Marina fees, Welding the dinghy davits back on, Marina fees and haul out in Bundaberg when my drive shaft failed, Marina fees at the Immigration point of entry, Accomodation in Port Stephens when I got wrecked,

So all up, $170,000-00 Fully imported, and I have enough money left over to retire on fully funded if I am very carefull with my dollars,

I stepped onto my new, second hand boat in September last year 2011 and fully retired at the same time,

This is against, $124,000 fully inclusive of all costs and charges and GST on top of the actual cost of the vessel itself to ship one here from the USA,

All these costs are current and applicable.

And not from some one told me or my sisters mates boyfriends mate heard it from some one he knows at work, Hahahahaha

This collusion between manufacturers and Australian importers and retailers is incredible and the price gouging that goes on in Australia is also unbelievable,

I will give you examples in another thread as I repair my boat and the costs involved in that.
Buying overseas, compared to the ripoffs here for the same articles,

Even a 25% mark up, I would pay to support businesses here,

But a $30-00 item over seas is $300-00 here for the same item, They can get stuffed, Well and truly,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 21-06-2012, 22:00   #438
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

No you don't Brian, we've established that term is irrelevant in this context.
Totally agree with your other comments though.

As for warranties they are more trouble than they are worth and I would never pay for any extensions or extras.

D&D if you are having problems with your Lagoon dealer try Shane at Vicsail Pittwater he is very customer service focused and should be able to help you.
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Old 21-06-2012, 22:21   #439
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

If you can get a warranty on a secondhand item, which I think is rare anyway and the obvious exception is cars from a licenced dealer, you need it it writing prior to or at the time of purchase. Assurances from salespeople good enough? Yeah, right - good luck with that.

The main problem with the production cats seems to be that they treat the first owner as part of the quality control process, all part of building to a price point. If the first owner doesn't get it sorted, the second owner inherits the problems.

I think the answer is to take your boating budget, spend half on the purchase, and the other half will cover repairs, additions and annual costs for the first five years of ownership. Get over it, move on.
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Old 21-06-2012, 22:59   #440
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Back to the market I see even the mighty Seawinds appear to be taking a hit in the market.
Does anyone know how the sales of Aussie built cats are fairing?
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Old 21-06-2012, 23:27   #441
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Thank you for your replies. Much appreciated.

Golly Gosh, I have a Grey import,

Why you ask, Because I could not afford to buy a Catamaran in Australia and still retire on the money I have in hand, After 49 years in the workforce,

Yes I did look and quite extensively as well, Google is my friend, Hahahahaha

I could have bought a decent cat in Oz, But I would not have had any money left to retire on, It would have taken all my resources, Totally,

A Second hand Prout 44 foot was $300.000-00 Very nice boat too, $8000-00 extra per year, just to park it some where, But it did have uncurable leaks in the windows, ?????

The Seawind with the folding doors on the back, $500,000-00 Then all the extra's,
That needed to be added,

New Gemini. $280.000-00 Plus all the extra's. Another $50.000-00 approx, dinghy, Electronics Etc, Thats in Melbourne already,

My American made 2003 Gemini, Cost me $150.000-00 With all the bells and whistles, Nav gear, Electronics, Enclosed cockpit. It had every thing and more,
Fully self contained, Solar, wind gen, The only thing it did not have was an electric winch for the anchor,

Both anchors were crap, but I didnt know that, It had been tied to a mooring Buoy for 5 years,

It cost me approx $20,000-00 to get it here, Fully imported to Australia and officially in my name as the owner,

Plane fares to Fiji, Accomodation in Fiji, Car hire and Hotel in Suva doing the tourist thing, Food, Extra bits I bought personally for the boat, Aussie Epirb, Flares, PFD 1's
Sail Chute,

GST, Immigration, Pest control, AQIS Fees. Diesel. Petrol, Marina fees, Welding the dinghy davits back on, Marina fees and haul out in Bundaberg when my drive shaft failed, Marina fees at the Immigration point of entry, Accomodation in Port Stephens when I got wrecked,

So all up, $170,000-00 Fully imported, and I have enough money left over to retire on fully funded if I am very carefull with my dollars,

I stepped onto my new, second hand boat in September last year 2011 and fully retired at the same time,

This is against, $124,000 fully inclusive of all costs and charges and GST on top of the actual cost of the vessel itself to ship one here from the USA,

All these costs are current and applicable.

And not from some one told me or my sisters mates boyfriends mate heard it from some one he knows at work, Hahahahaha

This collusion between manufacturers and Australian importers and retailers is incredible and the price gouging that goes on in Australia is also unbelievable,

I will give you examples in another thread as I repair my boat and the costs involved in that.
Buying overseas, compared to the ripoffs here for the same articles,

Even a 25% mark up, I would pay to support businesses here,

But a $30-00 item over seas is $300-00 here for the same item, They can get stuffed, Well and truly,

Cheers,
Brian,
Brian the tax component of your exercise:-
What did it amount to?

What basis was it calculated on?

Did your costs to bring her to our shores get deducted?

Do you have any comments to improve the process on your side?

Good factual stuff you have written, thanks.

Cheers Frank.
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Old 21-06-2012, 23:31   #442
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
Thanks Shadow,

I too have a broker/friend who is trying sell me his boat at a price that I consider a bit high. But it is his boat and like all owners he has the right to ask what ever he likes.
The problem I have is with brokers who won't let the owners sell the boat at a price below the brokers expectations.
That said I know there are a lot of brokers whom can not get the owners to come down and meet the market prices.
It's all a vicious circle, still as a buyer I can sit back and wait for the right boat at the right price.
This is a result of the modern market mechanism that drives all commodities markets in the western world, including stocks, real-estate, and in this case boats.

That mechanism is the flawed theory that whatever the last person paid for something is what all those somethings are worth in the world.

Brokers feel a duty, whether intentional or not, to support the value of their client's yachts. When even one yacht is undersold, it hurts the market values of all other yachts in that class.

This is less true of boats, probably than it is of stocks or real estate, simply because the paper trail is less accessible for boats, but I think this may be a factor in what you're experiencing.

The typical approach in these markets is to start high, then come down at a predetermined pace until you hit the right price at the right time. In extremely regular markets, like real-estate, this is highly predictable. The first time I sold a home, my selling agent told me what my house would sell for. I told him I had 6 months to wait. We started high, and gradually came down month by month.

Exactly 6 months later, my house sold for exactly what he said it would.
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Old 21-06-2012, 23:57   #443
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Brian the tax component of your exercise:-
What did it amount to?

What basis was it calculated on?

Did your costs to bring her to our shores get deducted?

Do you have any comments to improve the process on your side?

Good factual stuff you have written, thanks.

Cheers Frank.
10 % GST, on cost of boat and what ever it cost to get it here,

I had a holiday in Fiji, so plane fares were not included,

So basically food and diesel, For me, As I was living on the boat for 6 weeks prior to sailing,

If its not from a country with a free trade agreement with OZ, it will cost you an extra 5 % Duty,

You must be able to prove building was done in the country with the free trade agreement,

If you have a crew on board. their costs are added to the GST component,
Plane fares to and from are also included,
Maintenance. food, any thing purchased for the boat, Repairs, are included and charged GST,
96 hours Minimum reporting to customs before you get here.

They calculate the GST on the day you actually paid for the boat, So the exchange rate could be in your favour or not,

I gotta go and get a battery for my bike, Be back later,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 22-06-2012, 00:18   #444
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
Back to the market I see even the mighty Seawinds appear to be taking a hit in the market.
Does anyone know how the sales of Aussie built cats are fairing?
Wouldnt object if they were better, but we did sell more at Sanctuary Cove than any other manufacturer (as far as I am aware). So we continue to go okay in the current market.

What I can also say is that our second hand sales remain strong, perhaps because we honour warranties irrespective of change of ownership.
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Old 22-06-2012, 00:54   #445
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
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What I can also say is that our second hand sales remain strong, perhaps because we honour warranties irrespective of change of ownership.
+1 for for Seawind, definitely worth noting in your files
+1 for the 1250, but its outa reach just now!
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Old 22-06-2012, 02:52   #446
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My boat was ordered and delivered to Australia through the Aus distributor to the best of my knowedge.
Been trying to resolve an agreed factory issue since 2010.
Have given up as the next step was a good old fashioned legal battle.
I did not see taking on a massive French company as an option.
Expect no help after the cheque has cleared and you will be fine.
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Old 22-06-2012, 03:16   #447
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
Back to the market I see even the mighty Seawinds appear to be taking a hit in the market.
Does anyone know how the sales of Aussie built cats are fairing?
There's been some pretty reasonably priced 850s & 10s recently, but they are older, still great & reliable boats, one 10 that came on to Boatpoint, a mate had bought new & onsold, seemed like I blinked & it was gone............. the lovely wife woulda said yes to it too. Jeff.
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Old 22-06-2012, 03:23   #448
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Not sure if this was mentioned already or not but interesting to see some cats are selling 15 years later for 75-80% of new. Yet a bunch of gemini 105s. Have dropped to 40% of new. These being model year 2000+
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Old 22-06-2012, 04:17   #449
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I dont know how many Seawinds are out there,

But there are 1200 Gemini's floating around.

And the economy in the USA isnt the greatest at the moment,

Plus, we are a Luxury item, More so than a RV or caravan,
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Old 22-06-2012, 14:17   #450
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I also own a 'grey import' even though I have not imported it yet... still sailing her in Europe.
I'll be back in Oz in three years.
I bought her from MHS and I can say they they offered me a great service, helped me in a small battle with FP on some teething problems and I am as happy as one can be sailing around on my "Australian" registered Salina.

I will pay GST and Import duty when I get in Oz, and that will drive the cost, hence value of the boat up; that cannot be helped, if I want to sail my boat in my home country, I will have to fork out an additional 15% on its (then) value, so if I wanted to sell her in Oz, I will want to get hat 15% back from the buyer.

BTW, if that will happen, I would have no hesitation in asking MHS to list her for me.
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