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Old 12-09-2011, 20:05   #286
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
Ahh the power of the silent pause!
I use it daily
Funny thing is too watch when both parties know about it. I've seen a 20 minute silent period watching one deal being closed. Buyer talked, buyer signed, buyer spent the money.
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Old 13-09-2011, 16:53   #287
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I love sitting silent and counting, most times it does not get past 20 seconds.
If you are a bit uncomfortable imagine how the other side feels?

When selling another great question a broker should ask the buyer at time of offer is

If the offer that you have just given me on this ycht is not accepted,what will your next offer be? 9 times out of 10 you get the next offer and speed up the process there and then!
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Old 17-09-2011, 11:42   #288
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

A very successful broker once told me the way to sell a boat was to 1) Make sure she was immaculate and in good shape, 2) price here fairly, and 3) take the first offer!

He said that the best price you will get is the one offered by the person who has been waiting, looking for exactly what it is you are selling, who will respond almost immediately. After a month, the boat becomes something of a commodity, and is valued accordingly, with no credit given to the individual features the person who made that original offer was looking for. It becomes a "such and such length of so and so model", and eventually, just a "such and such" length.

He knew lots of people who got a decent offer right off, which made them assume that a little more time would elicit their asking price, only to keep the boat for another year, paying all the expenses, and then selling for a fraction of what they could have gotten. I am told this sometimes applies to houses, too.
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Old 17-09-2011, 14:43   #289
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Tim S. i agree to what you have said in lots of ways, but dont think i would take the first offer, i would try & take it up by 5k but yes you are correct in my view, as it has happend here with camper vans that are 70, 80,90k so to speak
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Old 17-09-2011, 15:00   #290
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That sounds like sort of thing a successful broker would say, what they think is more like come in sucker!
Of course this method will sell your boat quick, it also means a very easy quick sale with very little work for the broker.
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Old 17-09-2011, 15:44   #291
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

It's important to remember that there are 3 parties to every brokered sale, not only the buyer and seller.
It's just as well to remember that the broker is in business to get his best deal too, for him. He is not your broker, he is his broker.

Case in point...
I have a small business I'm selling through an agent.
The system here is that they get a percentage, but unlike boat brokering, the seller also foots the bill for some advertising up front.
A potential buyer saw my ad, came in and got all the info. I've met with him a few times to answer questions and give him a feel for what the business is like. He's a good guy and a genuine potential buyer.

Not unexpectedly, he asked the broker what else he has for sale too. By this time he'd been to the bank and found out his borrowing capacity is a lot higher than he thought.
Suddenly the broker is saying, "I don't know which way xxxx is going to go. With yours he gets an established business at a low cost with plenty opportunity to grow it, but with the 3x priced one he gets higher income now etc etc..."

I'd be naive if I thought the broker wasn't going to push the more expensive business. My broker?? Yeah, right...

Suddenly I'm the one selling the benefits of my business (and subtly white anting the other business... lol)

If my business doesn't sell, at best I might negotiate to get some more 'free' advertising considering my previous advertising got him this buyer
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Old 17-09-2011, 20:52   #292
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Actually, Dragon Lady, the logic is a bit more subtle than you may think, but you have to think it through and match that with the experiences of many unhappy sellers. But, no worries, I am neither trying to buy nor sell a boat, just trying to help with an interesting perspective. I have two boats, both of which I am very happy with, and both of whose purchases were happy and fair. Good deals, too!

Cheers,
tim
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Old 17-09-2011, 21:37   #293
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Yes Tim, A good deal is when everybody is happy,
If you are selling a really good boat in great condition at a fair price it will sell it's self even in a soft market.
So in that case do you need a broker?
The problem for most brokers is that there are heaps of not so good even bad boats with owners who want too much.
The best broker in the world will struggle to sell those boats.
I think a lot of brokers have to work just as hard to lower owners expectations on price as they do to persuade a buyer to make a reasonable offer.
It's all about getting the seller and the buyer to agree on a price, so if the seller accepts the first offer, happy days.
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Old 17-09-2011, 22:20   #294
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

With all due respect, if you simply read what I originally wrote, you will see that I never said anything about needing to use a broker, nor did my broker friend. What I quoted my broker friend as advising was to 1) prepare the boat well.....makes good sense, doesn't it? 2) Price the boat fairly....of course, that is a matter of judgement, as this whole thread demonstrates, but this makes sense too, and 3) take the first offer, because, in his opinion, that would be the best you would get, regardless of other considerations. To repeat, his opinion was that this would be the best price, since it would be offered by someone specifically looking for that boat, rather than a generic boat of the size or type in question. Even in this market, if you actually want to sell the boat, as opposed to wait for prices to stabilize or rise again, this also makes sense, as many discussions on this site (regarding waiting for a specific type of boat) demonstrate.

But, whether this does or does not make sense to anyone, what he did NOT suggest, was to "use a broker", or "come in sucker". He did not say "this will make your boat sell more quickly", although I am sure he thought it, and it would obviously be the case. What I said that he did say was that this was the best way to get the best price. Which, by the way, a seller is interested in, whether or not he uses a broker. And, of course, if one did happen to use a broker, that broker would also hope for the best price.

Not to prepare the boat would guarantee a worse price. Not pricing her fairly might turn some prospects away. And, in his opinion, the first offer, coming as it almost certainly would be, from someone really interested in THAT boat, would turn out to be the best.

And that is what I said that he said. No more, and no less. I am not a broker, but it makes sense to me, and I have certainly known any number of people who have held out for a long time for a better price, much to their regret, assuming that they really did, in fact, want to sell their boats.

And, while I have certainly had the displeasure of knowing some very sleazy brokers (none of whom were particularly successful, by the way), I have also known a few very honest ones, as well. Same as in any profession or business.

cheers,
Tim
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Old 17-09-2011, 22:39   #295
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Wow wow Timmy, I not having a go at you our your broker!
I'm just speculating on the the various positions and outcomes being sort by all the parties in the sale of any boat or item for that matter.
Of course the broker is right about getting an easy sale, and that is good for everyone but the vendor is doing all the work and spending the money.
Just for the record I was one of those vendors once, actually it might have been twice now that I think of it LOL!
All I meant was if the boat is so good it will sell so easily that you probably don't need a broker.
I have always used a broker for my boats and I expect I always will, especially seeing they are also friends of mine.
The real test of a good broker is one who stays your friend even when a deal goes bad.
Chill out, cruising isn't supposed to be about being agro.
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Old 18-09-2011, 04:56   #296
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As a real estate agent all of the comments apply to property as well.
Houses priced correctly sell in a balanced market in a timely fashion.
If you price a house or boat at 10% or more above market value you will not have many inspections and buyers will be reluctant to make offers as they see they will offend and be wasting thier time.
A boat needs to be no more than about 5% over its real market value as with a house and you will get inspections from serious qualified buyers and offers will come.
This is how you end up with multiple buyers and a good outcome.
One thing i will add and stress is you must get professional photos of the boat taken by a proper photographer.
We are in an information age where the internet is the display/ showroom to your boat and the more quality pics the better at least 15-20 photos minimum.
This should cost around $200-300 and the photos should be colour / exposure corrected for this fee.
Add the floorplan of the boat.

This way you will beat all the 2-3 photo adds and show the boat is great and that its worth looking at.

Selling is 100% predictable.

I do about 50 transactions a year and most go exactly as expected.

Thanks Harvey
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Old 19-09-2011, 00:57   #297
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
As a real estate agent all of the comments apply to property as well.
Houses priced correctly sell in a balanced market in a timely fashion.
If you price a house or boat at 10% or more above market value you will not have many inspections and buyers will be reluctant to make offers as they see they will offend and be wasting thier time.
A boat needs to be no more than about 5% over its real market value as with a house and you will get inspections from serious qualified buyers and offers will come.
This is how you end up with multiple buyers and a good outcome.
One thing i will add and stress is you must get professional photos of the boat taken by a proper photographer.
We are in an information age where the internet is the display/ showroom to your boat and the more quality pics the better at least 15-20 photos minimum.
This should cost around $200-300 and the photos should be colour / exposure corrected for this fee.
Add the floorplan of the boat.

This way you will beat all the 2-3 photo adds and show the boat is great and that its worth looking at.

Selling is 100% predictable.

I do about 50 transactions a year and most go exactly as expected.

Hear him! Hear him!!
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Old 19-09-2011, 06:44   #298
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Wow, someone has just listed a 2004 Lagoon 38 for $290K AUD pity I'm after a FP looks nice if the pics are recent. Welcome to yachtdomain.com - International Yacht Sales
There must be a catch but hay who knows nice cat for someone.
Hi Dragon Lady,
I know that your quoted post is 12 months old .... but it caught my eye as we are about to take delivery of a 2004 Lagoon 380 from the same broker. I don't know if it's the same boat, but I thought I would recount our experiences in purchasing this ex-charter vessel for anybody else that is considering the same.

We too had the old concerns about buying an ex-charter vessel!

It took some 3 weeks for our offer (which was considerably lower than the advertised price) to be accepted by the head office in the US. Following that, the broker organised a stay over sea trial for us, where we took her for a sail & had 2 days & a night onboard to go over her with a fine tooth comb.

We then had an out of water survey performed & the vendor brought her over to Airlie & took her back to Hamilton, at no cost to me, as she is too wide to be hauled out at Hamilton. I obviously paid for the haul out & survey.

I presented a fairly long list of items that I considered needed addressing & were beyond just normal wear & tear. I have received a signed agreement from the vendor listing ALL my concerns & a guarantee that ALL will be repaired / replaced before settlement. Being owned by a large charter company, it seems that they have the in-house maintenance staff & access to replacement parts that makes this easy for them to please a buyer, to ensure the sale in this depressed market.

In fact, these are a list of mostly non-critical items & the survey & our inspection showed no major problems. The topsides & deck are scratch free & recently polished, & the under water shows no signs of damage & the hulls have been anti-fouled recently.

Sure the motors have done 7,000 hours, but an inspection of the oils in motors & gearboxes appear to show frequent scheduled servicing had been done. The sails are 7 years tired. We also found a written rigging report that had been done last January that only showed 2 issues, that have already been rectified. The hatches are a bit crazed & the lexan windows need a polish ... but we can live with those for a while & can be repaired / replaced over time.

She is extremely clean & tidy inside & out & the surveyor gave her a "good buy" verdict with no major problems.

The point is that the only comparable age wise, privately owned Lagoon 380's I have found currently online are priced at 50% ($100k) more than what we have paid, & that includes the price of new main & genoa sails, stack pack boom bag & bimini top (including installation) that are being made right now by an Airlie sailmaker. These will be installed before we sail her home in 3 weeks time.

Sure an owners version would have been nicer ... but we are a relatively "compact" couple who have experienced living aboard a 22' mono in the long past & the price is unbeatable in comparison.

Also the fact that she is only a few days sail away is a huge time & cost saving to us compared to some of the cats we inspected further down south.

Maybe this level of pre-sales service & eager to please attitude is also a sign of the difficult times. Or maybe we have been extremely lucky in this purchase ... but we can't wait to be cruising the waters of FNQ & beyond in "Seabreeze".

See you out there!

PS Sorry for my long initial post.
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Old 19-09-2011, 16:58   #299
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Hi gspeak,

Congrats on your purchase, I too bought an charter boat and found the experience to be rewarding.
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Old 19-09-2011, 17:54   #300
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Welcome aboard gspeak, and congrats on your purchase.

That was an excellent and informative post
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