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Old 11-01-2011, 12:53   #181
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One issue with used boats that are going to need a refit is financing if you are going to. Used boats require a survey and the repair work is rarely considered in the value of the boat which is not true of new. In addition, the interest rates are less and the terms longer.
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Old 10-03-2011, 14:31   #182
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Words of wisdom Timbenner! Don't forget that boats are also the best defence against rising sea levels associated with Global Climate Change, just remember to let out a bit more chain! They also provide an escape mechanism from undesirable family members such as the mother in law.

If the affordability issue is major obstacle please don't be tempted to recover the purchase price by carrying certain cargoes:





Catamaran might hold more cocaine after record seizure at Scarborough | Courier Mail

Seriously, there is a great opportunity that some of our US friends have already started to exploit. With the high Australian dollar and an inflated secondhand cruising cat market here, why not buy a discounted boat in the US or Caribbean, cruise across the Pacific, sell at a premium in Australia and convert back to greenbacks at an historically high rate?
Just don't carry nose candy!

PS Wait for the mono lovers who regularly invade this forum to start riduculing these drug runners: "Real drug runners use monohulls, they can carry much more. 464kg of cocaine is all a cat can carry, etc, etc." LOL
Greetings Everyone.
I'm new here and enjoyed the threads.
I suppose that police seizure of the cat will make it a steal down the road.
Just a little too far for this beginner.
Thanks!
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Old 11-03-2011, 06:51   #183
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I expect the market for large cats to remain strong. As someone once said, even when times are bad the rich have money. At least here in the U.S., what's happening is that wealth is being redistributed upwards. Pretty soon 1% of the population will control 95%+ of the wealth, while everyone else will be living hand to mouth. The middle class is evaporating faster than the polar ice caps.

So the people in the top 1%, who are the vast majority of folks who can shell out high six figures or seven figures for a big cat, actually have more money than they did before.

I predict that where the market, especially the used market, will suffer is in boats under 40 ft: the Lagoon 380's, the Geminis, etc. There simply won't be enough buyers and there will be bargains galore.
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Old 11-03-2011, 14:20   #184
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I think you will find that the budget end of the market is still quite strong.
Well designed boats in resonable to good condition at the lower end of the market price will always sell no matter how soft the market is.
When I picked up my Cat a couple of weeks ago the charter company had just sold another of their excharter cats and a brand new Lagoon.
So I think the market is still ticking over, but it will be a while before we get back to 2008 levels.
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Old 11-03-2011, 16:46   #185
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I see cats 6-7 years old in the 36 foot range for under 200K. I see smaller cats like the Seawind 1000 and the Maine Cat 30 for under 100K. And those are asking prices.
Have these prices not dropped in the last 18 months?
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Old 11-03-2011, 18:30   #186
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I think prices have dropped, but I don't think they will drop much more in the States and Europe, Australia is another story with the exchange rate so good and more cheap imports arriving owners will eventually have to accept lower prices here unless the exchange rate collapses again.
Where did you see a Seawind 1000 for under $100K that's way less than anything I've seen anywhere .
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Old 11-03-2011, 19:36   #187
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I've never seen a Seawind 1000's asking price anywhere near $100,000. If so I would love to see where.
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Old 11-03-2011, 21:39   #188
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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I've never seen a Seawind 1000's asking price anywhere near $100,000. If so I would love to see where.
I think the lowest advertised one was Don Quixote in FL. If I remember right, it was above $130K. It also seemed to have some issues with hull damage.
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Old 11-03-2011, 21:49   #189
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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I think the lowest advertised one was Don Quixote in FL. If I remember right, it was above $130K. It also seemed to have some issues with hull damage.
We went to look at Don Q during our search for a Seawind. The stern extensions looked like they took a beating. From what I heard she sold for $100,000, a pretty good price. The one we bought had an asking price of $128,000, like Don Q she didn't have the hardtop, was an open bridgedeck. A thoroughly enjoyable boat.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:00   #190
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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I've never seen a Seawind 1000's asking price anywhere near $100,000. If so I would love to see where.
Well, the one's on Yachtworld now are listed in the $150K range (asking price). But I've seen lower prices.

Many of the folks looking for a cruising cat are buying it as a retirement home or second home. Sell the home (or second home) on land and buy the cat. Unfortunately, many of those homes on land have mortgages that are underwater. That's why I think that even prices atr the low end will decline, at least in the U.S.
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Old 13-03-2011, 23:21   #191
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Actually, since my business is done over the internet and email, I'm considering moving into a sailboat.
Considered a motoryacht a lot simply because they are so open with large windows and a lot of space when compared to the same LOA of a sailboat.
However I feel I should go green and change to sail, and the only ones I wouldn't feel claustrophobic working inside all day and night would be a cat.
So that's what I'm more interested now, and have spent hours enjoying the few leads you folks have given me.
I enjoyed, and laughed a lot with Captain Jack's videos, particularly to learn the easy way to lasso those @#$%! poles!
Well "boys & girls" ... this has been more fun and addictive than I ever imagined.
Thanks very much and I'll keep looking around, as I have to sell my antiques first, which would make a good dent in buying the cat.
Velejador
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Old 17-03-2011, 18:27   #192
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Well, the one's on Yachtworld now are listed in the $150K range (asking price). But I've seen lower prices.

Many of the folks looking for a cruising cat are buying it as a retirement home or second home. Sell the home (or second home) on land and buy the cat. Unfortunately, many of those homes on land have mortgages that are underwater. That's why I think that even prices atr the low end will decline, at least in the U.S.
Time will tell, but just because a boat that needs $50K of work sells for $50 to 60K less than what good boats are selling for doesn't mean the market is falling.

I know the US market is different but so is the cat market. Now that cats are getting popular and they are still very expensive to build demand is exceeding supply in the second hand market.
The GFC will also effect markets in the future as I'm sure there will be a shortage of 2009/10 boats on the secondhand market when things finally recover.
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Old 17-03-2011, 19:19   #193
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Dear Friends,
Any thoughts on hybrid cats?
No, not the four legged ones!
I tried the list of contents but got lost :-(
Seems like it's easier to sail a boat than to navigate the site LOL.
Thanks,
George
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Old 17-03-2011, 19:43   #194
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Hybrid cats?

If you mean motorsailors then they are a compromise and fairly rare. Electrical driven cats are to be avoided. The technology isn't there yet. Lagoon tried it with the 420 and 500 and eventually paid to replace about all of the hybrids with diesels. You can't generate enough electricity with solar panels so you have to have a genset and any physics major will tell you about energy that is lost when converting to another form. So running a genny to create electric for the drive is way less efficient than just running an engine for the drive itself. Which means slower. Batteries aren't there yet and lithium is just too expensive. Bob
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Old 17-03-2011, 19:45   #195
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

George --

Summarizing greatly (for details do a search on Lagoon 420):

Nice idea, if it works. While a few individuals report being quite satisfied with custom diesel/electric hybrids they have built, the most significant attempt to build production hybrids was that of Lagoon's. They built a number of 420's with hybrids and made a number of quite glowing inferences about them.

Very few of them have turned out to be true. With the Lagoons, the regeneration success has been quite spotty; some report it working well, others report that it hasn't. There have been a number of problems with the control and cooling systems. Because of the large number of batteries required, the boats are very heavy. This, combined with the fat transoms required to support the weight and a modest sail plan resulted in less than stellar sailing performance.

Bottom line: Lagoon is no longer marketing the hybrids. Perhaps they would still install one as an option, but all their advertising for them has disappeared. The last I heard, they had announced that they were cutting off support for those systems that have been installed. (I don't know if this true, perhaps an owner can chime in.) A number of people who bought hybrids have converted them to conventional diesels.

Still an attractive notion, but at least as far as production cats, that's what it remains.

ID
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