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Old 18-01-2019, 17:40   #1
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Catamaran Standing Rigging

Looking for info on why most production or custom cats don't have back stays or are cutter rigged with two fourstays?
Just cost cutting or something else?
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Old 18-01-2019, 19:38   #2
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

No backstay needed due to geometry of rigging. No back stay also allows for main sails with large roach.

Cruising catamaran sail plans evolved from performance multihulls, thus few cutters, ketches, etc. IMHO large main sail driven sail plans are not the best plan for cruising.
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Old 19-01-2019, 02:41   #3
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

If your in winds strong enough to need backstays, you probably have too much main sail up. It's better to sail with no main, the boom centered, and topping lift and main sheet tight. Then put out a spinnaker or just use your jib.
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Old 19-01-2019, 05:01   #4
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pirate Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

Not sure about production cats but Wharram came up with his triangle rig back in the 50's before production cats..
The stays are attached to the hulls rather than the beams lending to more structural stability and strength..
Backstays would have meant a much stronger and heavier beam right at the stern with heavy loading on the centre and the need for a second dolphin striker.
Mono designers are catching up..
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Old 19-01-2019, 06:58   #5
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
No backstay needed due to geometry of rigging. No back stay also allows for main sails with large roach.

Cruising catamaran sail plans evolved from performance multihulls, thus few cutters, ketches, etc. IMHO large main sail driven sail plans are not the best plan for cruising.
Yes the above makes sense (to me). And hence my questioning the standing rigging and (simple) sail plan of most cats.
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:07   #6
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
If your in winds strong enough to need backstays, you probably have too much main sail up. It's better to sail with no main, the boom centered, and topping lift and main sheet tight. Then put out a spinnaker or just use your jib.
I'm thinking about safety at sea. Atlantic crossing say BVI to Portugal and not having a smaller jib on second furler, In case of bad weather.
I have been in 35Knts and triple reefed the Genoa, but I wonder about the center of effort (of triple reefed Genoa) being so far forward and no redundancy in only having one fourstay (and no back stay).

So solution to having some redundancy in strong winds, may be a second fuller behind Genoa (smaller) jib and tight main sheet and topping lift?
I have seen this setup on Lagons from the 90's
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:16   #7
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Not sure about production cats but Wharram came up with his triangle rig back in the 50's before production cats..
The stays are attached to the hulls rather than the beams lending to more structural [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]stability and strength..
Backstays would have meant a much stronger and heavier beam right at the stern with heavy loading on the centre and the need for a second dolphin striker.
[/COLOR]
Mono designers are catching up..
This makes sense to me also, catamarans are very different in structure than monos.
I still think the current cat rigs and sail plans have evolved to a simple point with cost cutting in mind (like most things).

Interested to know how mono designers are catching up?
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:22   #8
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pirate Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

It all depends on the internal structure of the build.. I would suggest you contact Leopard before jury rigging something.. a lower forestay could also induce pumping as you have no lowers to compensate for the stress lower down..
Hopefully the above is clearer than mud.
For what its worth I have crossed several times on different Lagoons and experienced up to 45kts with no rigging problems.. only problem was a reefing block on 3rd reef rip out in the 45ktr.
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:29   #9
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pirate Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes maybe View Post
This makes sense to me also, catamarans are very different in structure than monos.
I still think the current cat rigs and sail plans have evolved to a simple point with cost cutting in mind (like most things).

Interested to know how mono designers are catching up?
Triangulating their rigs now beams are much wider allowing the uppers to be moved aft of the masts centre line.. See Hunter 45DS for example..

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hunter-45-ds

PS, yellow is a lousy highlight colour on my phone
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:35   #10
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post



PS, yellow is a lousy highlight colour on my phone

I was unable to read the yellow on my iPad!!
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Old 19-01-2019, 07:53   #11
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Not sure about production cats but Wharram came up with his triangle rig back in the 50's before production cats..
The stays are attached to the hulls rather than the beams lending to more structural stability and strength..
Backstays would have meant a much stronger and heavier beam right at the stern with heavy loading on the centre and the need for a second dolphin striker.
Mono designers are catching up..
Sorry about the yellow. I tried to change it, but then lost internet connection.
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Old 19-01-2019, 08:03   #12
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Triangulating their rigs now beams are much wider allowing the uppers to be moved aft of the masts centre line.. See Hunter 45DS for example..

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hunter-45-ds

PS, yellow is a lousy highlight colour on my phone
Had a look, interesting. looks like no back stay?
Still thinking, is it better (safety needs to be included, in better) or cheaper?
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Old 19-01-2019, 08:14   #13
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pirate Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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Originally Posted by Yes maybe View Post
Had a look, interesting. looks like no back stay?
Still thinking, is it better (safety needs to be included, in better) or cheaper?
In my mind safety lies in staying within a rigs limits.. even backstayed rigs will fail if overstressed.
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Old 19-01-2019, 08:23   #14
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Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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In my mind safety lies in staying within a rigs limits.. even backstayed rigs will fail if overstressed.
Yes, reef when the manual says to, and no question about any rig failing.

Look at it from different angel, will this new sail plan approach loose performance, say up wind?
And still curious as to the economics of it..
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Old 19-01-2019, 08:34   #15
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pirate Re: Catamaran Standing Rigging

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Yes, reef when the manual says to, and no question about any rig failing.

Look at it from different angel, will this new sail plan approach loose performance, say up wind?
And still curious as to the economics of it..
For that talk to a rigger/sailmaker/designer familiar with your boat.. I lack the quals and knowledge to advise other than say I'd not do it before talking to the designer.
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