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Old 10-09-2014, 22:07   #76
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
What does it matter whether any one particular cat will sink or float? Really, there are more dangerous things to worry about then if the cat is on the bottom or partially submerged.
I'd suggest it would matter a lot if it was your boat that was holed and was going to sink in the very near future. Frankly I'd prefer my boat stayed afloat, but of course everyone has their own preferences.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:48   #77
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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I don't remember us having any disastrous weather up there recently. Did I miss something?

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Further to this. I have been on Google Earth and searched all the area and cannot find these "sunken monohulls" at all. Which bay are you in may I ask. I am concerned because a friend of mine is going up there very soon and would like him to know for his safety.

Coops.
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:48   #78
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I'd suggest it would matter a lot if it was your boat that was holed and was going to sink in the very near future. Frankly I'd prefer my boat stayed afloat, but of course everyone has their own preferences.
If you got holed, would it be more important to have water tight bulkheads to control the ingress or the knowledge that once your boat is filled with water it will still float? Since I'm confident my boat filled with water would sink, bulkheads and bilge pumps are very important. What is the cost to refit a boat that has been submerged for a long time? A lot I would think.

Cruising Cat, you have to admit that your boat is constructed vastly different then 99% of the other ones floating out there. It was an excellent build and designed specifically for you. Most of us end up with production built cat's and can't count on "unsinkable" to save us, at least not for sure.
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Old 11-09-2014, 14:51   #79
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
Further to this. I have been on Google Earth and searched all the area and cannot find these "sunken monohulls" at all. Which bay are you in may I ask. I am concerned because a friend of mine is going up there very soon and would like him to know for his safety.

Coops.
There is a pair of masts sticking out of the water in front of the Whitsunday sailing club. There are flashing yellow lights near it.

There's a wreck on the rocks to the east of the marina entrance.

There's a wreck near pigeon island.

There's the wreck of a very large 3 masted schooner, "Whitsunday Magic" between pigeon island and the VMR ramp at Cannonvale.

I believe, though I didn't go there, that there's another boat up on the beach near the new port of Airlie marina.

There's very likely more that I didn't see.

You do know that Google Earth isn't live right? Many of the photos are several years old.
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Old 11-09-2014, 14:55   #80
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

I am aware that it is not live, but it said 2014 on the data so near enough for me. Thank you for the info, will pass it on, although they do not seem to be likely to cause him any problems from what you have said.

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Old 11-09-2014, 14:55   #81
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
If you got holed, would it be more important to have water tight bulkheads to control the ingress or the knowledge that once your boat is filled with water it will still float? Since I'm confident my boat filled with water would sink, bulkheads and bilge pumps are very important. What is the cost to refit a boat that has been submerged for a long time? A lot I would think.

Cruising Cat, you have to admit that your boat is constructed vastly different then 99% of the other ones floating out there. It was an excellent build and designed specifically for you. Most of us end up with production built cat's and can't count on "unsinkable" to save us, at least not for sure.
To be honest I doubt that your boat would actually sink. While it's much heavier than mine, I still think there would be enough coring and sealed chambers to keep it afloat.

But yes, I've experienced what it's like to have only a couple of bilge pumps keeping us afloat. I didn't like it, and have no intention of repeating it.
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Old 11-09-2014, 15:07   #82
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
I am aware that it is not live, but it said 2014 on the data so near enough for me. Thank you for the info, will pass it on, although they do not seem to be likely to cause him any problems from what you have said.

Coops.
The one that has sunk on the approach to the sailing club is the only potential danger, if you were anchoring there.

We don't these days, we anchor in shallow water near the VMR ramp, it's an easy walk to a shopping centre from there.

So the list I gave isn't necessarily complete, these are just the ones I've seen anchoring where we do.

Just looked on Google earth. Mine says the images in that area are from 2008.
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Old 11-09-2014, 16:04   #83
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

You know you can DL wreck data from the USCG and run a search in google and it'll show you the wrecks on google maps
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Old 11-09-2014, 17:35   #84
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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You know you can DL wreck data from the USCG and run a search in google and it'll show you the wrecks on google maps

Would that work on wrecks outside of the states?


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Old 11-09-2014, 17:41   #85
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
I am aware that it is not live, but it said 2014 on the data so near enough for me. Thank you for the info, will pass it on, although they do not seem to be likely to cause him any problems from what you have said.

Coops.
I would consider that to be a very dangerous area. Not only did those boats sink there for some reason (grounding, right?) but now there's the wreckage to possibly strike or get entangled with.
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Old 11-09-2014, 18:53   #86
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
To be honest I doubt that your boat would actually sink. While it's much heavier than mine, I still think there would be enough coring and sealed chambers to keep it afloat.

But yes, I've experienced what it's like to have only a couple of bilge pumps keeping us afloat. I didn't like it, and have no intention of repeating it.
I think we all can agree for the following points:
  1. Many cats can sink.
  2. Some cats are really unsinkable.
  3. Even some monos are unsinkable.
  4. Any boat can be destroyed one way or another.
  5. All discussions along the lines "cats do flip and monoss do sink" are nonsense.
  6. Boat can be seaworthy having one or more hulls.
  7. The safety on the sea is no matter of number of hulls.
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Old 11-09-2014, 19:14   #87
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Would that work on wrecks outside of the states?


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I would imagine if you could get the same kind of data sets.

I was however wrong, it's not uscg, it's from NOAA.

http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/h...tructions.html

Right click on a desires link, copy shortcut, paste into google search, the. Switch to google maps. Ouila...wrecks
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Old 11-09-2014, 19:35   #88
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I would consider that to be a very dangerous area. Not only did those boats sink there for some reason (grounding, right?) but now there's the wreckage to possibly strike or get entangled with.
You should point that out to the (literally) hundreds of charterers who ply those waters weekly. They are told by the charter companies that the Whitsundays are quite safe in all respects, save the occasional cyclone. That agrees with my several periods of cruising there... a pretty benign area in the winter months, occasionally NOT benign due to storms, but they are well forecast for those who pay attention.

Many of the sunken boats that have "littered" the bottom of that area are due to cyclone and tropical storm activity, and the fact that all too many boats are left on dodgy moorings. IIRC, after the last example of this there were a couple of cats sunk (or at least flooded and 90% sunk) as well... in fact, pictures were posted here on CF of just that. In truth, not so many boats of any sort were actually sunk... more were washed up on shore when their moorings failed.

And just to add some spice to the thread, did any of you hear about the 38 foot catamaran that flipped at its mooring in Little Oyster Cove, Tasmania in a thunderstorm last February? Not much publicity, but in front of many reliable witnesses! Several monohulls came to grief in that storm, and one, a recently launched reconstructed classic 8-metre named Varga was snatched from doom on the rocks at the very last moment by a stalwart yottie in a big motor sailor.

I reckon that all designs have failure modes, and that part of the informed boat selection process is to consider all of them in view of one's own situation. Each of us will come to their own conclusions from such a evaluation... I just wish that folks wouldn't have to defend their decisions so vehemently here on CF.

Cheers,

Jim

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 11-09-2014, 20:32   #89
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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You should point that out to the (literally) hundreds of charterers who ply those waters weekly. They are told by the charter companies that the Whitsundays are quite safe in all respects, save the occasional cyclone. That agrees with my several periods of cruising there... a pretty benign area in the winter months, occasionally NOT benign due to storms, but they are well forecast for those who pay attention.

Many of the sunken boats that have "littered" the bottom of that area are due to cyclone and tropical storm activity, and the fact that all too many boats are left on dodgy moorings. IIRC, after the last example of this there were a couple of cats sunk (or at least flooded and 90% sunk) as well... in fact, pictures were posted here on CF of just that. In truth, not so many boats of any sort were actually sunk... more were washed up on shore when their moorings failed.

And just to add some spice to the thread, did any of you hear about the 38 foot catamaran that flipped at its mooring in Little Oyster Cove, Tasmania in a thunderstorm last February? Not much publicity, but in front of many reliable witnesses! Several monohulls came to grief in that storm, and one, a recently launched reconstructed classic 8-metre named Varga was snatched from doom on the rocks at the very last moment by a stalwart yottie in a big motor sailor.

I reckon that all designs have failure modes, and that part of the informed boat selection process is to consider all of them in view of one's own situation. Each of us will come to their own conclusions from such a evaluation... I just wish that folks wouldn't have to defend their decisions so vehemently here on CF.

Cheers,

Jim

Cheers,

Jim
I wonder how high the winds were to flip that cat. Did it flip forwards or backwards?
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Old 11-09-2014, 21:03   #90
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Re: Catamaran Sinking

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I wonder how high the winds were to flip that cat. Did it flip forwards or backwards?
As it was secured to a mooring at the time, I believe that it went sideways... ie, a "normal" capsize. Post flipping, it dragged the mooring through the mooring field, striking and damaging several other boats. Sad for everyone involved.

Boats involved claimed that there were gusts to around 80 knots, sustained winds between 50 and 60. There was a lot of shore damage... roofs blown off, trees down, and one poor chap was killed in his car when a tree fell onto him. The Bruny island ferry (a biggish car ferry) was unable to operate and took refuge behind a nearby point. The storm was embedded in a well predicted cold front, and was only this intense over a fairly small path. We were about 75 miles west (in Port Davey) and only experienced 55 knots sustained, no thunderstorm activity when the front passed over us.

Cheers,

Jim
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