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Old 17-06-2007, 00:43   #1
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Catamaran Sails

For lots of down wind sailing on a cat I am trying to decide what is a better way to go; cruising chute or two poled out headsails. I know the chute is a great choice but I am sometimes shorthanded and I am talking about for serious cruising on the tradewind route.

I would like to be able to have a chute as well as pole out two head- sails but I do not really like the idea of carrying the spinnaker poles (for poling out the headsails, not for the chute) on board. It seems like every week I find something else that "i have to have" that adds more weight and clutter to the boat.

ALso, if I go with a chute then what would be the best design and frabric weight for all around usage?

Additionally, I have a BIG genakkar sail that is on a sprit and I am trying to decide if I want a 2:1 halyard set up or 1:1. A friend that has the same boat is taking his 2:1 off in favor of a 1:1 set up. Any thoughts on the best way to rig a genakker on a cat?

I have attached a photo of a sistership

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Old 17-06-2007, 00:55   #2
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A big cat should never go dead downwind, therefore should never need twin poled out headsails. Go for the Assymetric/gennaker you have, tack it to the sprit, pull it up, sheet it in and sail hottter angles and get there faster.
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Old 17-06-2007, 02:06   #3
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Dead down wind

Why do you think Big cats should "NEVER" go dead downwind. In normal conditions going dead downwind should not be a problem. I realize the chute is more efficient but it also requires more attention when sailing with it up and on long ocean cruises its nice to set it and forget it for awhile. Speed to destination is not the only thing one desires. Although speed is nice Your thoughts?

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Old 17-06-2007, 03:43   #4
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All boats run down wind when tradewind sailing.

Twin headsails seem to be the rule because of the ease of handling the smaller sails. Another issue, is emergencies. IN a MOB situation, twin furling headsails can be stored immediately, while a chute might have to be cut loose.

And MOB's do happen...

As for the halyard, I've never had a 2:1 halyard on any boat I've sailed. However, I think this would be best left up to you as you're the one on the end of the halyard.

Rick in Florida
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Old 17-06-2007, 06:23   #5
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Have a look at the webpage below!
No pole required, lot of adavntages.

isTEC.ag
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Old 17-06-2007, 07:30   #6
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I looked into getting one of those,parasails but they dont work well in light wind >I heard < from a fellow on this board who has one, what about 8-10 knots of wind seems as if low winds are what I run into most of the time and have to motor.
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Old 17-06-2007, 09:30   #7
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Put a sock on it.

Like I said, my sense of humor needs... help.

But seriously a spinnaker is not difficult to handle on a cat. To fly it, you store it in a forward sail locker, attach the halyard to the sail in the locker. The sheets should already be routed through blocks in the bows and routed to stern blocks and wenches. Hoist the sail while it is in the sock, raise the sock to fly the sail. If you have to douse it, you do so by pulling down the sock. Lower the sail and back into the locker. Single handling is not too much of a hassle, you just want to be sure you douse it before you find yourself in too much wind.

For cruising I like a heavier sail, 3.5 oz. But down to 2 oz is probably better for occasion sailing.
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Old 17-06-2007, 13:11   #8
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Normally, I'd agree, but this fella was asking about trade wind sailing. Picture that you're 1/2 betweem the Cape Verde Islands and The Windward Islands, and your wife goes overboard. How do you stop a boat quickly in 25 knots of dead astern wind, turn the boat, find your wife, and still have sails to get home with?

It happened to a friend of mine. Neale Ensign circumnavigated in a 37' Prout Snowgoose. He and his wife were on their last leg, returning to the USA from Europe and his wife went over board, and he very nearly lost her. He described how difficult it was to dump the twin headsails and turn the boat, and find her. With a chute, left single handed, the same scenario would not have had the same outcome.

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Old 17-06-2007, 13:14   #9
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Of course..... if it was about to be an ex wife......

just kidding
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Old 17-06-2007, 13:16   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
He and his wife were on their last leg, returning to the USA from Europe and his wife went over board, and he very nearly lost her.

Rick in Florida
What if you WANT to lose your wife

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Old 17-06-2007, 13:26   #11
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Ok, If you want to go DDW you can, it just won't be as efficient. If you are sailing with a spinnaker and need to stop , blow the sheet and spin the wheel, the boat will stop. Inless you want to sail around at 2kn in case someone falls overboard.With a sock no real problem to single hand as described above by the welsh looking name I can't pronounce.
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Old 17-06-2007, 13:48   #12
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Dana,

Trade wind sailing is transocean sailing. it's always DDW, that's the point that fella was making. Cape Verde Islands to the Windward Islands it's DDW for 2500 miles.

Bring up the wind map in Google earth and take a look, or bring up the ARC map. In the annual ARC, many boats use chutes, but they usually have 3 or 4 folks onboard.

I'm sure Gord can give us the history of sailing the trades, but suffice it to say that the old square riggers needed it to get pushed west.

In the trades, You point the boat and go with the flow. It just isn't practical to single handedly jibe 24 hours a day for 20 days at sea.

Rick in Florida
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Old 17-06-2007, 13:51   #13
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Keegan,

I apologize for calling you 'that fella"

Rick in Florida
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Old 17-06-2007, 15:15   #14
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Call me what you like, when i did that passage on a Catana 431 we jibed at midday every day, kept the apparent wind just aft of the beam, got there quicker and more comfortable, easier to return to a MOB than DDW.
I suspect very strongly the boat in question is not set up for DDW, there is no permanent backstay so the shrouds are led way aft, let the main out and you will have holes in your batten pockets inside 24 hrs. Similarly most boats of that type do not have a vang, but rely on a full width traveller at the back end, won't work with the boom eased much past the transom.
I am sure the designer never intended this boat to be sailed DDW, a jibe a day is no hardship, possibly good exercise(see the thread on aging and sailing).
keegan , try an email to the builder/designer and see what they say.
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Old 17-06-2007, 16:29   #15
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[quote=dana-tenacity]Call me what you like, when i did that passage on a Catana 431 we jibed at midday every day, kept the apparent wind just aft of the beam, got there quicker and more comfortable, easier to return to a MOB than DDW.
I suspect very strongly the boat in question is not set up for DDW,


Yes, the boat is probably not set up for dead down wind. Actually when I first posted this I just said "down wind" which would include Dead and other angles that were close but not quite Dead. I will talk with the manufacturer.

You summed up the boat design well but I dont think the boat is designed much different than many of the cats that are out there.

MAxingout is a Privelage cat and member of this forum www.maxingout.com and has circumnavigated and sailed for 33k miles. He claims that two poled out sails worked out much better for him than a chute and he sailed the trade wind route for thousands of miles like this. He has video footage of his poled out rig on his website. His rig did not have problems with this but he could have had running backs or something, I am not sure. Seems like the forces would be similar to a chute anyway though.

Keegan
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