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Old 21-12-2008, 15:37   #31
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Since the thread started by talking about a Mahe 36 ...

The sail handing question can be quite specific.

The jib sheets are both in the one spot, right in front of the helm. An arms length away is the furler line. The jammer for the main halyard is also right there at the helm as is the mainsheet.

My two cents worth is that you start the engines, go head to wind which slows the rate you are going away from the MOB. Drop and furl the sails and motor back.

Doing it this way may offend the purists but you will have much more chance of keeping one eye on the MOB in my opinion. You will also have much better ability to manouver close to the MOB.
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Old 21-12-2008, 15:40   #32
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...in most cases the little lady doesn't have the muscle to handle large cruising cat sails herself effectively, in fresh conditions, when the man overboard situation is most likely to occur. .
This may be the case with whatever it is you sail. But its not the case with our new boat.

We wisely ticked the option on the list called “Gravity”. With this option in place we are now able to release a clutch and watch the main just drop in a bag, we are able to release a line and watch the outboard drop into the water. Bloody marvellous thing this gravity – I strongly recommend it.

We couldn’t afford the “gravity sideways” switch – so we will have to put the furling line for the headsail on the winch and use two fingers to put that sail away.

Seriously – for what its worth my approach is – first mark position, (MOB on plotter or similar – pencil note on chart) throw life rings and danbouys etc, head to wind drop main, drop engines, start engines – idling – not in gear – assess situation and if feasible sail back under head sail.

Forget figure 8 - forget willemsen turns just get the position noted, get the gear in the water and get the boat stopped.
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Old 21-12-2008, 16:18   #33
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To be perfectly honest, if I go overboard I'm probably dead. We easily sail at 12 knots which means in 15 seconds the boat has travelled 1 football field.

Nothing wrong with practicing MOB drills but it may be more prudent to make sure you have good jack lines, a good harness with a SHORT TETHER, and make sure it's clipped on.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year all.
Exactly right Joli, always remember losing a strobe over the side on a very rough Brisbane-Sydney delivery one night.

They reckon these things have a (from memory) 14NM vis range?, but we lost sight of this one after about 3 wave lengths.

A crew member in wet weather gear pulling them down would have had no hope.

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Old 21-12-2008, 21:53   #34
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This may be the case with whatever it is you sail. But its not the case with our new boat.

We wisely ticked the option on the list called “Gravity”. With this option in place we are now able to release a clutch and watch the main just drop in a bag, we are able to release a line and watch the outboard drop into the water. Bloody marvellous thing this gravity – I strongly recommend it.

We couldn’t afford the “gravity sideways” switch – so we will have to put the furling line for the headsail on the winch and use two fingers to put that sail away.

Seriously – for what its worth my approach is – first mark position, (MOB on plotter or similar – pencil note on chart) throw life rings and danbouys etc, head to wind drop main, drop engines, start engines – idling – not in gear – assess situation and if feasible sail back under head sail.

Forget figure 8 - forget willemsen turns just get the position noted, get the gear in the water and get the boat stopped.
Mmmmmm, Andy, lets hope the conditions are nice and mild whenever you go sailing, so the main always just drops straight into the bag ,for the little lady.
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Old 21-12-2008, 22:06   #35
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To be perfectly honest, if I go overboard I'm probably dead. We easily sail at 12 knots which means in 15 seconds the boat has travelled 1 football field.

Nothing wrong with practicing MOB drills but it may be more prudent to make sure you have good jack lines, a good harness with a SHORT TETHER, and make sure it's clipped on.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year all.

I don't mean to be rude, but using a tether and practicing MOB recovery procedures are not exactly an either/or choice. It is not MORE prudent to do one or the other. Doing BOTH is just plain good prudent seamanship. Not doing BOTH is foolish.

My situation is a bit different than most. I teach sailing pretty much full time. In the last year I have probably personnelly done well over 100 MOB drills myself and coached students through well over a thousand. Sometimes on J-24s in 30 knots, and sometimes on Catalina 36's in 5 knots. And boats and conditions in between. Believe me, I know just about everything that can go wrong (but there is always that new twist!).

There are many boats on which a singlehanded MOB would be very difficult or damn near impossible. I can do it on my own 40' ketch, so can my wife. Everyone of our certified students has to bring a boat back to a MOB and stop the boat at least three out of four times. They do this with one crew onboard to help. So I know that any good, well trained sailor WITH PRACTICE can bring a wide variety of boats back to an MOB quickly and efficiently. The key here, is that it is a skill, not an intellectual exercise. It really takes practice, and frequent practice, to be good at it. I should be realistic, and realize that if somebody doesn't think they need to practice this, me preaching at them isn't going to change their mind, so I really should get off this soapbox, at the end of this post...

The very idea that "if you fall overboard you're dead anyway" I find to be incredibly silly. If you really believed that your MOB plan would be to look over your shoulder, wave goodbye, and phone the next of kin. I doubt anybody would not TRY to go back and pick up a crew in the water. If you would try it, you should practice it. It is harder than you think but not impossible. Believe me, you should practice it even if your plan is to use the engines. It WILL take longer than you think it will, and there will be problems you didn't anticipate.

One of the things I think is frequently missed, is that nobody is ever "ready" for a crew in the water. It's always a shock and a surprise. If you don't have a drill ready to go, things will get bad quickly. One of the key techniques, IMHO, is RIGHT AWAY coming to a course that is 90 degrees off the true wind--no matter what your initial point of sail. If you do this you can always sail an accurate reciprical course and have a very good chance of finding the victim. If you go sailing off upwind, or down, the chances of finding somebody get smaller every second.
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Old 22-12-2008, 00:14   #36
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I guess my assumption is similar - if I fall overboard I'm dead. I don't want to assume that somebody (a) noticed I was gone (b) can find me in the dark/rough waves/etc. conditions that caused me to fall overboard. The one time I fell overboard on a nice sunny day, nobody noticed!

My wife and I did a lot of offshore sailing and we're going again soon. It was always assumed that, tether or not, if you go overboard you've got a good chance of dying. So you bloody well don't fall over in the first place.

On our 40' cat, we shrimped a spinnaker in about 20-25 knots of breeze. We just eased the main (no jib of course) as we hauled the big wet nylon bag over the stern. The boat acted like a big raft and sat beam on to the seas as we drifted downwind. Fairly quickly, but not faster than a typical mono I think. Coming abeam of the MOB and drifting down on them might work fairly well.

As I said, the hardest part is stopping the boat. On my boat, if you come head to wind, you rapidly start sailing backwards...
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Old 22-12-2008, 01:56   #37
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Of course no one has mentioned things like personal locator beacons which can be triggered by the overboard person (if they are still conscious etc.) and Ray-marine or similar brand Man overboard systems that alert crew to someone leaving the boat.

Knowing the person has in fact gone over, particularly on short handed crew is probably the biggest issue, given I for example maybe asleep don below while the lady is on watch. If she goes over then - how do I even know she has left the boat? So I think prevention is point one - ie tethers and systems that dont require the on watch to leave the cockpit, and if need to leave cockpit then wake the other party, then limitation of damage - eg man overboard systems and PLBs and life jackets, and then return to person and then of course there is recovery, thankfully most cats are very easy boats to get someone back aboard.
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Old 22-12-2008, 02:29   #38
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Mmmmmm, Andy, lets hope the conditions are nice and mild whenever you go sailing, so the main always just drops straight into the bag ,for the little lady.
Why not continue the negative comments, like

Hope the headsail furls
hope the motor starts
hope the fuel is clean
hope rope doesnt wrap around the prop
hope lightning doesnt strike
hope the sky doesnt fall


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Old 22-12-2008, 03:22   #39
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I guess my assumption is similar - if I fall overboard I'm dead. I don't want to assume that somebody (a) noticed I was gone (b) can find me in the dark/rough waves/etc. conditions that caused me to fall overboard. The one time I fell overboard on a nice sunny day, nobody noticed!

My wife and I did a lot of offshore sailing and we're going again soon. It was always assumed that, tether or not, if you go overboard you've got a good chance of dying. So you bloody well don't fall over in the first place.

On our 40' cat, we shrimped a spinnaker in about 20-25 knots of breeze. We just eased the main (no jib of course) as we hauled the big wet nylon bag over the stern. The boat acted like a big raft and sat beam on to the seas as we drifted downwind. Fairly quickly, but not faster than a typical mono I think. Coming abeam of the MOB and drifting down on them might work fairly well.

As I said, the hardest part is stopping the boat. On my boat, if you come head to wind, you rapidly start sailing backwards...
I'm with you on this one Evan. The chances of the little lady finding us are just so small . Just got to keep that harness on. I'd be interested to see how well some of the flatter bottomed cats stop.
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Old 22-12-2008, 05:39   #40
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I'm with you on this one Evan. The chances of the little lady finding us are just so small . Just got to keep that harness on. I'd be interested to see how well some of the flatter bottomed cats stop.
Is this just another sexist comment on your part that women aren't up to the job (in your opinion) of controlling a boat or performing MOB drills?

Or is it an admition that you have failed in teaching your partner how to perform MOB drill to your satisfaction?

maybe you need to

A) improve your skills in teaching
or
B) get a woman that takes more interest in saving your life

Woman are very capable of performing all sorts of amazing feats catty

And ermm, what sort of boat and experience do you have again? I'm sure you've been asked before.

This knowledge would help in some of the newer members opinion as to the validity of your posts


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Old 22-12-2008, 10:26   #41
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And ermm, what sort of boat and experience do you have again? I'm sure you've been asked before.

This knowledge would help in some of the newer members opinion as to the validity of your posts


Dave
Dave,

Just read the posts, it will be clear who's got the real goods and who are spouting off. The trolls "think", they "hope", they "assume", they "plan", they quote "authority", they don't "DO".

They change the subject. They have nothing useful to say about sailing a boat back to a MOB, so they try to talk about tethers and harnesses, suggesting sailors who practice effective MOB techniques decide it is ok not wear harnesses and tethers.

I especially liked the guy who was going to make a pencil mark on the chart when somebody went in the water.

Anytime the description of an emergency procedure starts with some version of the following words: "I will just...." you can be pretty sure it's an armchair exercise. The kind of comments not worth printing on paper, since this is the internet, they aren't even worth the electrons to transmit them.

What I have learned by starting this thread is that nobody here seems to have any useful experience to share about sailing a cruising cat back to a MOB that I haven't seen before. In fact I have seen little other than pontification and puffing.

I think I'll go just go back out on the boat and experiment some more. Adding a gybe to the Figure8 drill sounds interesting in light winds, but a full standing jibe in strong winds still leaves me a bit nervous. If you realy know the Figure8 drill you know you really don't have time to sheet in in preperation for a controled jibe.

I started this talking about a Mahe 36, and we haven't even addressed the fact that bringing a MOB up alongside the port hull is almost impossible--you can't see them at ALL from the helm.

Bill

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Old 22-12-2008, 11:51   #42
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I got to thinking over the weekend. I haven't done a MOB with the cat, but we were sailing downwind in 20-25 knots. A dbl reef in the main, and half a head sail doing 8 - 10 knots. My brother caught a fish, and soon realized we were dragging it with no fight.

Mind you it wasn't an emergency, but it could be used in one. Yes, I know you don't want the motors started, but I think one should use every tool there is, and both keys are alongide each side of the wheel, and start with the slightest touch to the button. I went to the mast to release the halyard while my wife did a 180. The main dropped in the bag, and by the time she finished 180 degrees I was finishing the furl on the head sail. This took no time at all, and the MOB strobe, and bouy are next to the step to get on the roof, so it could be flung overboard on the way to the mast.

At the same time my brother walked the pole forward, and we held our position until he brought the pole back to the stern again as we fell off. We could have easily spotted the MOB during this time holding our position.

GK,

You have the greatest oppurtunnity to practice, and play with an effecient drill 6 months out of the year. The wind on the bay is constant in both direction, and strength for half the year. I would be extremely interested in what you find as you work on this.

When I first started single-handing on S.F. Bay. I would go out, and practice from the bridge all the way back to Emeryville my gybing procedure. Soon I became effecient at it, and continued to gybe in all conditions.

After doing MOB so many times in my mono I never considered what the outcome would be on my cat. Good question, and thread.......i2f
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Old 22-12-2008, 17:17   #43
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So Bill (GK) you will have to practice some additional manouvers to pick your MOB up on the starboard side in your Mahe no matter what the circumstance.

I have made other comments about the sheet, furling lines and halyard positions on your Mahe in an earlier post.

Preferable as it is to sail to an MOB part of your development in flexible thinking may require you to accept that motoring on the specific boat you (and I) have is the correct option.
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Old 05-01-2009, 12:15   #44
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Agree or not, catamarans by virtue of their beam have far more manueverability under power than monohulls. In a MOB situation, why wouldn't you employ all of your resources (i.e. engines) to expedite the rescue effort? Especially when short handed, sail handling (other than releasing the sheet(s)) can compromise the effort and may actually put the rescuer at physical risk. The first action I take after initializing the MOB function on the GPS is start the engines. Under most sail conditions, I can reverse course in a couple of (50ft) boat lengths.
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Old 05-01-2009, 13:08   #45
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Throw flotation, then turn into the wind to stop.
If the MOB gets flotation, you have probably saved his life. Don't attach the flotation to the boat with a line - you might drag it away from him before he gets to it. The best flotation is a life ring that can be thrown 30 yards - just upwind of the MOB.
If you don't get flotation immediately to the MOB, you may lose him.
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