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Old 26-02-2016, 14:39   #76
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Reefermagnet, get your mind back on the job.

Surely you can get some mileage out of the vessels suitability for shorthanded
offshore sailing from the picture i posted


The pic does not seem relevant. Smooth water and flying a hull? Crossing a bar with swells is an entirely different story.
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:42   #77
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pirate Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post


The pic does not seem relevant. Smooth water and flying a hull? Crossing a bar with swells is an entirely different story.
Not if that's how they sailed across the bar..
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:49   #78
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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Not if that's how they sailed across the bar..
I doubt any folks plying those waters are that stupid. I had made the comment maybe they didn't reef enough?
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:55   #79
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pirate Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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I doubt any folks plying those waters are that stupid. I had made the comment maybe they didn't reef enough?
You greatly under estimate the capabilities of the Human Race..
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:55   #80
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

If they were coming from Cairns, there's no reason whatsoever to think they attempted the fishermen's channel. With a building swell.

RidjiDij was righted once they got in between Fraser is. and the mainland. So might this vessel be.

It would be cool if the Leitners wrote an article about their experience for Afloat or Cruising Helmsman.

The anchorage at Double Island Point is quite doable in a monohull, if necessary, putting out a stern anchor to hold her head to the refracted swell. Some parts are less rolly than others, and, with a strong SE, the breeze will hold you stern to the swell, which works just fine. BTDT.
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Old 26-02-2016, 14:56   #81
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

I blame myself for having posted, without initially realising it, in a multihull thread

But just to make it clear before I get lambasted again, my use of the phrase "cat killer" was not intended as a sledge against catamarans (in fact one of my favourite all time boats is the FastBack 32), but rather just as a reference to the nature of the Wide Bay Bar to flip cats on their lids on a reasonably regular basis.

So if I've offended anyone unintentionally, please accept my apologies.
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Old 26-02-2016, 15:19   #82
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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You greatly under estimate the capabilities of the Human Race..
Could be, I hope not sailing. Idiots don't last long. Probably giving up after trying to dock one or two times. Some people are made for sailing and some aren't. I can't speak to this incident. Just glad they survived.
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Old 26-02-2016, 15:39   #83
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

This thread is now 6 pages of mostly crap.

How about no more posts unless you've got some facts about this incident to share? Keep the bias, the speculation, the "cats are unsafe" comments and the bickering off the forum. Please.
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Old 26-02-2016, 15:41   #84
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

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a reference to the nature of the Wide Bay Bar to flip cats on their lids on a reasonably regular basis.
I know of two in 30 years, can you fill the gaps in my knowledge?
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Old 26-02-2016, 15:43   #85
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Use incoming flow. Not necessarily related to high tide. Safest in middle of rising tide. Never come in against the flow. Consider water exiting bay from flooded rivers. Consider rogue waves. Reduce sail. Close hatches. Use motor as well. Pray for wisedom.
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Old 26-02-2016, 16:29   #86
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

We may as well 'chirp in' with our experience of Wide Bay Bar FWIW...after all, we're talking about crossing probably ~20 times in the past 5 years and (again FWIW) in a cat...

Both our experience and our conversations with sailors on ALL types of vessels confirms WBB to be one serious and potentially very dangerous stretch of navigation. In addition to the dog leg passage with constantly changing depths -- Even the local Coast Guard admit their waypoints can be suspect in certain conditions -- there's an area the locals call 'the Mad Mile' where steep waves often appear from all directions and the resulting wave action on a vessel is extremely confused, threatening the stability on any vessel...and once you're in there, there's no turning back.

Our experience also includes plenty of other awkward bar crossings from Victoria's Lakes Entrance and all along the OZ east cost, not the least of which being our home port the Clarence River, but WBB holds our 'prize' as the toughest of the lot. Twice we were hit on WBB by large rogue waves on the beam through the Mad Mile, going close to being breached, but fortunately able to quickly recover our bearing...and on one of those occasions a large monohull that was standing off at sea, watching our passage, turned away and headed over to Double Island Point to wait calmer conditions.

We would never attempt WBB at night.

So we feel great empathy for any, including this latest episode, who actually do come to grief on WBB...and we urge all those contemplating the crossing to do so with extreme care. WBB is a potential killer for any vessel...not just cats.
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Old 26-02-2016, 17:02   #87
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

G'Day All, Sorry to be pedantic but the marine rescue unit at Tin Can Bay is not VMR! It's Coast Guard Tin Can Bay! Although VMR (Volunteer Marine Rescue) units and Coast Guard (Australian Volunteer Coast Guard) units perform the same line of duties, they are no the same organisation and we get a bit touchy when the wrong organisation gets the credit for a job well done.

I'm a rescue boat crew member with Coast Guard Southport and the Southport Seaway will be breaking hard today (Sat 27 Feb) so everyone please take care down that way.
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Old 26-02-2016, 17:07   #88
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Plus 1 on what Tuskie said.
What can be confirmed is that both were wearing life jackets, and the strobing lights highlighted exactly where they were and led to their succesful rescue. An important lesson in itself.



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Old 26-02-2016, 17:12   #89
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

Thanks Jonno. Thanks also for you and your organizations great work.

But speaking of the Southport Bar.....

And, I know its been shown before but just to remind ourselves about the small margins between "hero" and "zero".



When this cat began to broach, it was not necessarily the quick steering response of the captain, or the correction form the AP, but just plain good luck, that the hull design assisted and that the rudders finally gathered some "grip". Don't fool yourself that you have special skill or powers

Also consider that the Southport bar, some 100NM south of the Wide Bay Bar, is pretty deep by comparison and the drop zone is short (perhaps 25-30m).

The "Mad Mile" referred to at the WBB generally runs at a 50-70 degree angle to the running sea, with (in the wrong conditions) breaking white water on either side with a 40-50m wide zone of "safety".

All this being said, if you cross at the right time in the tide cycle, in daylight, in contact with "Coast Guard Tin Can Bay", using updated WPT data, in the sort of sea conditions that most are prepared to go comfortably to sea in anyway, the likelihood of mishap is very, very low.

If the sea is up, then you should have stayed back at Mooloolaba or Morteon Bay waiting for a better window (you can turn back), anchor at Double Island Point as mentioned, or sail on and round north of Breaksea Spit atop Sandy Cape, Fraser Island.

To risk life and limb just to save a day's sailing is foolhardy.
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Old 26-02-2016, 18:30   #90
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Re: Catamaran flips in Rough Seas - Fraser Island

No need to stir the pot any further!
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