Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

[downunder]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Soooo.... cats don't sink? My eyes must have deceived me then because I have seen a Prout and a Voyage 440 go down down down.

cheers,
Nick.

Let me know if I am wrong but I believe the hulls of those older designs mentioned are solid fibreglass not foam/balsa sandwich construction and without sufficient watertight compartments will/can sink.

Agreed some cats can sink. Most of the more modern designs do not.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by maytrix

I find the space on a mono to be cramped. Why have to duck to get into bed when you can stand and even sit up in bed?

Why indeed..........

All my berths have (at least) sitting head room. Half of them have full standing room.

.........and I am at 30'.

[Joli]

They do.

Hunter makes the Gemini 105.

Originally Posted by sailstoo

Gosh this is a fun thread. Can you imagine how much better it'd be if Hunter made a Catamaran?

[TassieBloke]

Could not be bothered to read through 10 pages of another multi vs mono mud slingfest...

So apart from all that, did we actually get anymore info on the Galveston Bay thang? I mean, this is what this is all about right?

[Factor]

Tassie - it was a 70s design called the macgregor 36 - overgrown beach cat, lots of fun, not a lot of stability, and known world wide for lee bow pitchpoling if pressed too hard.

We have also learned that all multis are dangerous

[TassieBloke]

Factor: Thank you. By the way, does Dilligara mean what I think it means?

140 odd posts all about a Beach Cat? Must have been some Cat. Wow...just wow.

Can't the Mods create some sort of Filter that when mono and multi are mentioned in the same post, it is automatically deleted

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by TassieBloke

Can't the Mods create some sort of Filter that when mono and multi are mentioned in the same post, it is automatically deleted

They have - it's called "Ignore Thread" (also have "Ignore sub-forum").

I kinda like these threads it's like watching a slow motion car crash

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by downunder

Let me know if I am wrong but I believe the hulls of those older designs mentioned are solid fibreglass not foam/balsa sandwich construction and without sufficient watertight compartments will/can sink.

Agreed some cats can sink. Most of the more modern designs do not.

The Voyage had foam core... you're prolly thinking of Norseman but I don't know if that one is solid or not. Anyway, a cored laminate is not what will keep you afloat... abandon that idea. When you take total weight carrying capacity from the core minus the weight of the rest of the laminate.... I don't think it will even carry the engines. We have full 1" balsa core so tell me why this wouldn't keep us afloat?!

It's the water tight compartments that keeps one floating.... as long as these are not holed. Mono's have these compartments too; they actually invented them for mono's lol.

ciao!
Nick.

[clockwork orange]

Factor, could you point to actual evidence of a Mac 36 pitchpoling, i ask this because i used to own one and before buying it had researched it pretty extensivly and have a ring binder with every article i could find on their racing exploits from back when they were raced hard in the early to mid 80s and not once did i read of any tendency to pitchpole, in fact as im writing this i have in front of me an article from an old Multihuls magazine where a French guy who used to own the Mcalpine Downie racing cat British oxygen which he lost crossing the Atlantic, he bought a Mac 36 and raced it in the 1979 St Marteens Tradewinds race which was an 800 mile race in heavy weather (where he finished 3rd) and he has high praise for the boat in every way and i quote "i am very suprised to find that the Macgregor handled itself so safely. In the conditions we encounted the boat didnt get overpowered. When we were surfing down the waves it WOULD NOT dive into the next wave, it would come right back up again" end quote. The boat in fact has a fair bit of reserve bouyancy in the bows with the long overhang and stability is the same as any other 36ft x 18ft x 4000 lb cat. In all my research i found NO evedence or suggestion of any Mac having flipped at all anywhere and they were raced hard back then and it was well covered in Multihulls magazine. as i mentioned earlier, i did read in a mag many years ago of one that flipped at anchor in a hurricane in Belize and now this one in Galverston, THATS IT, so if anyone has any actual evidence of any others please post them so i can add them to my list.
Steve.

[maytrix]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Why indeed..........

All my berths have (at least) sitting head room. Half of them have full standing room.

.........and I am at 30'.

I don't know why more aren't like that. I was really shocked at the Annapolis boat show to see so many that were so very cramped. Most aft cabins had enough room to stand in place and then you had to duck every where else. Even a 50 footer we saw with a very nice master aft cabin had 2 little spots to stand on either side and then duck or crawl everywhere else.

Our aft cabins don't have a whole lot of room and you have to duck when in the aft beds, but you at least have more room to move around and could at least sit on the bed without hitting your head. I'd say at least 70% of the boats we saw were worse and I truly expected to see better room in the newer boats.

[Cpt Sandbar]

I found the attached photo of the capsized Mac 36 but little to add to the capsizing report other than this boat doesn’t appear to have the masthead floatation wing. East Galveston Bay is only 10-12’ deep and the mast must be stuck in the mud which kept it from turning turtle.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The Voyage had foam core... you're prolly thinking of Norseman but I don't know if that one is solid or not. Anyway, a cored laminate is not what will keep you afloat... abandon that idea. When you take total weight carrying capacity from the core minus the weight of the rest of the laminate.... I don't think it will even carry the engines. We have full 1" balsa core so tell me why this wouldn't keep us afloat?!

It's the water tight compartments that keeps one floating.... as long as these are not holed. Mono's have these compartments too; they actually invented them for mono's lol.

ciao!
Nick.

Depends on the boat. The core alone would keep us afloat. I know because the volume of materials used to build the boat would displace more than the boat weighs. Then there's the 50+ sealed compartments....

Why wouldn't your core keep you afloat? How many tonnes of lead are you carrying? I'm sure if you got rid of the lead your core would keep the boat afloat...

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Depends on the boat. The core alone would keep us afloat. I know because the volume of materials used to build the boat would displace more than the boat weighs. Then there's the 50+ sealed compartments....

Why wouldn't your core keep you afloat? How many tonnes of lead are you carrying? I'm sure if you got rid of the lead your core would keep the boat afloat...

erhmm.. you can only count volume of materials that are lighter than water and also have to distract that volume's own weight from the calculated displacement figure.

I'm wondering what the volume of balsa or foam in your hull and deck is. I can't believe it will carry the hull, rig and engines without the help from those 50+ sealed compartments.

ciao!
Nick.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by maytrix

I don't know why more aren't like that. I was really shocked at the Annapolis boat show to see so many that were so very cramped. Most aft cabins had enough room to stand in place and then you had to duck every where else. Even a 50 footer we saw with a very nice master aft cabin had 2 little spots to stand on either side and then duck or crawl everywhere else.

Our aft cabins don't have a whole lot of room and you have to duck when in the aft beds, but you at least have more room to move around and could at least sit on the bed without hitting your head. I'd say at least 70% of the boats we saw were worse and I truly expected to see better room in the newer boats.

What used to be called a locker is now sold as a State Room

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

erhmm.. you can only count volume of materials that are lighter than water and also have to distract that volume's own weight from the calculated displacement figure.

I'm wondering what the volume of balsa or foam in your hull and deck is. I can't believe it will carry the hull, rig and engines without the help from those 50+ sealed compartments.

ciao!
Nick.

Completely incorrect. The TOTAL volume will displace that amount of water. Doesn't matter what material it is.

ie 10 m3 of lead will displace 10 m3 of water. (it won't float, because it weighs much more than 10m3 of water, but the fact is it still DISPLACES 10m3 of water)

So if all the material in the boat occupies 10m3, and the boat weighs less than 10m3 of water (call it 10 tonnes) - then it can't sink.

The basic material kit for just my hull/deck structure was more than 6m3. (There is quite a bit more material in the final product.) The boat launched, with near full water tanks, engines, batteries some fuel and lots of other gear, but less the rig, at 4800kg.

So even without the 50+ bouyancy compartments, my boat would not, COULD NOT sink.