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Old 20-11-2011, 13:50   #16
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Good thing is, the boat stayed afloat, and everyone survived. Far too many boats don't stay afloat, and far too many people die as a result.
Thats the trouble with good multis 44C -I think it was Ian Farrier who remarked that they have the indecency to remain afloat and thus make for good footage and commentary, if they would just sink away there would be nothing left to comment on.
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Old 20-11-2011, 13:52   #17
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

That is a nice thing about cats; they usually float even when capsized and are much easier to spot than swimmers whose boat has sunk.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:04   #18
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Prec isley where has anyone ever said that cats dont capsize, when - by whom?
May be it was the crew aboard the cat "Willy Flippit" who first told me about it. Their dinghy was called "Betty Wont" (no joke!)

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That is a nice thing about cats; they usually float even when capsized and are much easier to spot than swimmers whose boat has sunk.
But but.. monohulls that capsize almost never sink either, so how can that comparison work ?!

cheers,
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:11   #19
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Same old same old, nothin to see here - I will be back when we have some evidence to discuss
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:13   #20
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I should resist this post, I have no right to speak...

It is always the catamarans skippers decision that flips it...
It is always the mono-hull's skipper that picked that craft/displacement... and ability to survive the same treatment...
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:23   #21
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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But but.. monohulls that capsize almost never sink either, so how can that comparison work ?!

cheers,
Nick.
You do know it's possible to sink a boat without capsizing it first?
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:26   #22
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

is overturning a cat due to the lack of ballast that a monohull has? I thought cats were stable/weighted enough not to flip but I guess enough wind could do anything.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:34   #23
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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is overturning a cat due to the lack of ballast that a monohull has? I thought cats were stable/weighted enough not to flip but I guess enough wind could do anything.
No, ballasted monohulls can turn over too.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:45   #24
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Good thing is, the boat stayed afloat, and everyone survived. Far too many boats don't stay afloat, and far too many people die as a result.
Will be interesting to find out what happened.

I am at a total loss as to how vessels can be built to CE standard for off shore conditions and yet do not have bulkheads or bouyancy to eneable such a vessel to float if holed??

Authorities and sailors seen to accept this possibility readily and in many cases do not carry a liferaft.

Nick, I know you have watertight compartments in your vessel however the majority do not.

I am baffeled.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:49   #25
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I think a government mandated sticker on all cats would cure the problem. "This side up"
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:51   #26
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Will be interesting to find out what happened.

I am at a total loss as to how vessels can be built to CE standard for off shore conditions and yet do not have bulkheads or bouyancy to eneable such a vessel to float if holed??

Authorities and sailors seen to accept this possibility readily and in many cases do not carry a liferaft.

Nick, I know you have watertight compartments in your vessel however the majority do not.

I am baffeled.
Some of the CE rules defy logic. Multihulls have to have toerails but monohulls dont? Where's the sense or logic in that?

Bloody glad we don't have that CE garbage here.
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Old 20-11-2011, 14:53   #27
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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I think a government mandated sticker on all cats would cure the problem. "This side up"
As opposed to the "Future Artificial Reef" sign on all monohulls?
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Old 20-11-2011, 15:02   #28
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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I am at a total loss as to how vessels can be built to CE standard for off shore conditions and yet do not have bulkheads or bouyancy to eneable such a vessel to float if holed??
CE = Chinese Export.

B****er all to do with making sense
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Old 20-11-2011, 15:06   #29
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I'm going to unsubscribe.

Somebody PM me when there is a pertinent update please.
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Old 20-11-2011, 15:10   #30
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

See, it's not all the "old/nothing new here" kind of thread. Many do not exactly know about these things and only few have the courage to ask.

1. No amount of wind can capsize a monohull. The monohull will heel further and further until the righting force of the design equals the force of the wind in the sail. The further the boat heels, the less force the wind can transfer to the boat. Also, mono's righten back up from heel angles far beyond 90 degrees, think 120 degrees.

2. It is waves that capsize monohulls, unlike cats that can be flipped by the wind and are much less likely to capsize due to waves. When a cat lifts a hull up from the water... the further it lifts it up, the more surface area of the hull is facing the wind until it is maximized at 90 degrees heel. This counters the diminishing surface are of the sails and makes it possible to flip by wind force alone.
Here's what helps a mono from not capsizing from waves: more length, more freeboard, more beam, more surface area of superstructure to complement the freeboard. Weight in the keel doesn't help much. What provokes capsize is wing keels that work like a drag when heeled around 90 degrees and prevent skidding. There's the whole skidding off waves factor which by itself is often at the center of debate.
The shear beam of a cat is what prevents it from capsizing by waves. Only massive high breakers have a chance.

3. Most monohulls that sink, do so because they have either sprung a leak or caught fire. The leak is most often a problem with plumbing. Cats also can sink, their cored hulls are no match for the weight of engines, mast, rigging and all other stuff aboard (and they burn as easy as monohulls). However, they don't sink that often because cats are mostly modern designs with features like watertight bulkheads. Also, their low weight without keel/ballast means they can be tossed around a lot (more than mono's) before that leads to constructional damage.

4. Both designs have inherent weaknesses. For cats, it's the rigging and the superior stability when upside down. The rigging is the more serious one while the flipping thing gets all the attention. When a cat flips it's mostly because of real big mistakes from it's crew, but sometimes nature can throw so much at a boat in an instant, that the crew gets overwhelmed and doesn't get time to reef or even let go of sheets etc. You can't compare with racing cats that need to lift a hull from the water to be competitive, knowingly increasing the risk of capsize by a huge factor.

For any long time sailor it's obvious that there are areas where cats make more sense and areas where mono's make more sense. Buyers know that too so you can determine this from the ratio of cats vs mono's in the marina's. When there is 1 cat for every 10 monohulls it's sure that a cat is a better fit imo.

ciao!
Nick.
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