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Old 27-11-2011, 06:01   #241
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

That's the thread I was referring to in my post above. Thanks, Cormorant!
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Old 27-11-2011, 06:08   #242
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Very interesting thread, Cormorant, albeit quite long. Thanks, mate.
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Old 27-11-2011, 07:08   #243
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
This made me chuckle



(attempt to lighten the mood ).

Best reply of this thread, other than the fact the crew rescued of the capsized cat .
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Old 28-11-2011, 11:29   #244
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Like many of the multihull racers I know, you too seem to exhibit the "oh well" cavalier attitude. Don't worry mates, some one will be along shortly to pluck us out of the drink. What fun!

Is that the picture you want to paint?

I'm glad you're all safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by docgav View Post
Hi fellow yachties,
I am a reader, rarely a writer on this forum as there is a fair bit of 'this is better' sort of stuff. The reality it we sail fragile craft in an unpredicatable medium. Mono or multi, carbon or concrete, we are all bums on the water at the whim of the weather doing what we hope is our best with what we have at hand (be it due to dollars, knowlege or circumstance).
That being said: I can add a bit about capsize. I just recently took the family for a cruise and race aboard our 50ft cat eDoc (aka TopGun) and flipped her.
At the last count I made 14 mistakes. The biggest one was complacency.
1. Rising wind and reef lines removed
2. Centreboards right down beating to windward at 14 knots
3. Mainsail oversheeted
4. headsail sheet in self tailing winch
5. winch handle still in winch
6. windward (free) sheet in self tailer also
7. mainsail sheet in self tailer
8. mainsail winch with winch handle in it.
9. Bearing away to find a mark and unaware of power/apparent wind increase.
10. Apparent wind rising to 30-35 knots as boatspeed exceeded 25
11. Leaving the helm to check the mark.
12. Crew preparing for spinnaker run and not on sheetlines.
13. When hull lifting rounded up instead of dumping main and bearing away
14. No releasing main traveller.

There are probably others. I stuffed up. eDoc capsized in 4m of water - so with a 24m stick she had a 'choc top' when hauled back over a couple of hours later. Only damage was to masthead instruments and lights and....my ego! My kids throught it was a great adventure. The nine year old wants to do it again...
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Old 28-11-2011, 13:01   #245
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I know you only sail on a lake, but don't you carry an EPIRB?
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Old 28-11-2011, 16:27   #246
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Originally Posted by Joli View Post
Like many of the multihull racers I know, you too seem to exhibit the "oh well" cavalier attitude. Don't worry mates, some one will be along shortly to pluck us out of the drink. What fun!

Is that the picture you want to paint?

I'm glad you're all safe.
Is it any different when monohull racers with actual fast boats such as Rambler call for help when their keel falls off, no it isnt, actual fast boats(as distinct from the usual 4ksb racers) these days regardless of the number of hulls are closer to the edge than they used to be and sometimes things go wrong.
Steve.
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Old 28-11-2011, 18:16   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange
Is it any different when monohull racers with actual fast boats such as Rambler call for help when their keel falls off, no it isnt, actual fast boats(as distinct from the usual 4ksb racers) these days regardless of the number of hulls are closer to the edge than they used to be and sometimes things go wrong.
Steve.

Correct, but many multi owners like to tout the breathtaking speed of their multis, while raving about the accomodations and load carrying capabilities, all in an unsinkable, impossible to capsize, package.

These traits in aggregate cannot exist in a single multi (nor mono for that matter).




Anyone remember the picture in cruising world or sail a couple of years ago of a gunboat 48 flying a hull during review sailing in annapolis? That's what can happen with a go-fast cat although if I could afford a cat that's what I would buy.
Those cats that "can't" capsize are no faster than their equally priced equal accomodation monohull brethren. (ie 40 foot multi compared to 50-60 foot mono). I've posted this before, but you need to compare multis to monos that are 40-50% longer in terms of price, space, dockage cost, displacement, etc. Then the comparison is much more valid IMHO. Compare a 40 foot typical cruising cat to a beneteau or jeanneau 50+ footer. All metrics then tend to be similar and it's just a matter of preference. Upwind speed vs no heeling. No capsize vs no sinking. Flybridge steering vs traditional cockpit. On and on.....
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Old 28-11-2011, 21:16   #248
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
...
Those cats that "can't" capsize are no faster than their equally priced equal accomodation monohull brethren. (ie 40 foot multi compared to 50-60 foot mono). I've posted this before, but you need to compare multis to monos that are 40-50% longer in terms of price, space, dockage cost, displacement, etc. Then the comparison is much more valid IMHO. Compare a 40 foot typical cruising cat to a beneteau or jeanneau 50+ footer. All metrics then tend to be similar and it's just a matter of preference. Upwind speed vs no heeling. No capsize vs no sinking. Flybridge steering vs traditional cockpit. On and on.....
By Jove.... I think this man wins a cigar...
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Old 28-11-2011, 21:35   #249
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Malbert, i pretty much agree with all you wrote, thanks for a well reasoned post.
Steve.
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Old 28-11-2011, 21:53   #250
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Cruising cats really aren't significantly faster than a larger cruising mono of the same cost. When loaded they're probably slower. They're better on beam reaches, not as good on pointing. All in all it's probably neither here nor there in respect of speed. And from what we're seeing of the new cruising cats, they're getting much heavier, with sail plans not well matched to their bulk.

Compare a 1996 cruising cat to a 2011 model of the same size and brand: The increase in weight to sail plan are dramatic. The market has spoken - sailing performance doesn't sell cruising cats, space does.

That being said, there are a lot of unique aspects to the cat that make it a good cruising choice.
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Old 28-11-2011, 22:20   #251
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli View Post
Like many of the multihull racers I know, you too seem to exhibit the "oh well" cavalier attitude. Don't worry mates, some one will be along shortly to pluck us out of the drink. What fun!

Is that the picture you want to paint?

I'm glad you're all safe.
You may want to do some research on Dr Gav before you start dissin him, aside from his wealth of experience, authorship of books on the subject of seamanship, he even helps mono sailors (he was the doc on duty where a lot of the Sydney to Hobart crews were evacuated to).

I think the picture he wants to paint is - I stuffed up, I made lots of simple errors and I shouldn't have. Honest and helpful to others.
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Old 28-11-2011, 23:53   #252
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
You may want to do some research on Dr Gav before you start dissin him, aside from his wealth of experience, authorship of books on the subject of seamanship, he even helps mono sailors (he was the doc on duty where a lot of the Sydney to Hobart crews were evacuated to).

I think the picture he wants to paint is - I stuffed up, I made lots of simple errors and I shouldn't have. Honest and helpful to others.
+1 His books and articles are always very honest and helpful.
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Old 29-11-2011, 00:57   #253
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

[QUOTE=Factor;827536]
I think the picture he wants to paint is - I stuffed up, I made lots of simple errors and I shouldn't have. Honest and helpful to others.[/QUOTE

Yes , which can be interpreted as "If I can't keep one of these multi thingys buttered side up the rest of you have got no chance"
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Old 29-11-2011, 01:11   #254
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Dumbest post ever? Oh yeah,
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Old 29-11-2011, 01:41   #255
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
I think the picture he wants to paint is - I stuffed up, I made lots of simple errors and I shouldn't have. Honest and helpful to others.
Yes , which can be interpreted as "If I can't keep one of these multi thingys buttered side up the rest of you have got no chance"
So how do you manage to keep your cat right side up?
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