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Old 24-11-2011, 12:31   #181
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I'll see if its possible to steer this thread even more off topic. It would seem to me that monos have been around for years and 40 years ago the percentage of cats out there cruising oceans would have been minimal. When cats first began to be seen they would have been the oddity, the unknown and not as well developed as the cruising mono so their limitations were their downfall and flipping over and staying inverted was probably all the mono sailor needed to convince him to stay with his mono. But the advantages of the cats increased their popularity. The more people bought them, the more $ were put into making them safer until now they compete with monos equally as a desirable cruising machine. At the boat shows it seems that most of the development in monos seem to be at the high end racing sector with things like canting keels that don't cross over well to the cruising sector of the market. However at the same shows better and better cruising cats are at every show. My suggestion is that in another 40 years as the cat continues to develop and become safer we will look back in amazement at those brave souls who cruised the world in slow sailing boats with lead sinkers bolted to their underside.
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Old 24-11-2011, 13:09   #182
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Oh.. I was under the impression that you were a live aboard cruiser, in which case you have everything you own aboard. You obviously don't and are able to keep that needed weight discipline on a cat.



I know you will never believe me, not even when you would scuba dive on them. You would surely find reasons for their sinking that don't count as such in your view. I tried to find the events on the Internet but didn't succeed. The Prout was the last one I saw go down and this was in Curacao in 2005 or 2006. It sunk while being pulled off a beach, regardless of all the floats attached. There are hundreds of boats who can confirm but alas, not members here a.f.a.i.k.

The Voyage sank during hurricane Ivan in Grenada. Many cats sunk during that event. I normally don't post these depressing photo's but will make this one exception; this cat is stuck with it's rig in the mud. I don't remember what type of cat it was but think it was a Moorings charter boat.



cheers,
Nick.
I do live aboard full-time. And we carry everything we need, plus quite a few toys. We don't carry everything we own. The house and block of land wouldn't fit. We don't need the ride on mower, or any of the gardening stuff. I guess you mono guys carry all that with you?

As for the cats that sank. I never said I don't believe they sank - I said I don't believe you saw it happen. Makes no difference really, but as I said earlier, whether a cat can or can't sink DEPENDS ON THE BOAT. Some older solid glass boats can sink. There are aluminium cats that could possibly sink. We even saw a STEEL cat this year. Steel boats can sink.

But most modern, cored construction cats won't sink. And boats that are kept light will float quite high. "Windswept", a racing podcat was launched with the depth and speed transducers not fitted. Apparently the water in the hulls was a bit over knee deep when it reached equilibrium.

In fact most modern, cored keelboats would probably stay afloat if it wasn't for the lead dragging them down. (They'd probably sail too.)
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Old 24-11-2011, 14:04   #183
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

When the Mac 36 is fully sunk, ie reached her equilibrium,the water level in the hulls is,in fact,at about knee deep as with windswept/john west and confined to an area of about 8ft long,it will sail like this and is easy to bail out. which is why i believe the one shown in the photo has had the floatation foam removed to create storage space. Most of the boats had the masthead floats removed and a lot of them had the foam blocks removed from under the berths by owners as they began to use them for more than daysailers. It occured to me when i had mine that while it would not sink, if it flipped it would not float high without a bouyant bridgedeck or bouyant arched beams, not a big deal on a daysailer/coastal cruiser it would not be great offshore. A cat like the Oram 44c is a far cry from most cruising cats as they have a thick bouyant core and very thin non bouyant skins,a typical production cat will have much thicker skins, hell, the gelcoat is probably as thick as the glass on the 44c, this means there is much more floatation per square meter available on the 44c.
Steve.
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Old 24-11-2011, 14:07   #184
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Each cubic metre of foam adds about 920kg of bouyancy.
New modern 46ft cat design foam core design in water with all but rig weighing 7.44T with 600L water, 200L fuel, 100M all chain rode and anchors aboard. Minus liquids 6.64T.

9.6 cubic meters foam in build.
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Old 24-11-2011, 15:35   #185
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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I do live aboard full-time. And we carry everything we need, plus quite a few toys. We don't carry everything we own. The house and block of land wouldn't fit. We don't need the ride on mower, or any of the gardening stuff. I guess you mono guys carry all that with you?
right. you live aboard full time but keep your stuff incl. lawn-mower that you can ride on at a house that you never live in. Sure, that's a way to do it I guess when you need to keep your boat light us monohullers? We sell most to get enough money and take the rest aboard, no houses, lawn-mowers etc.

Quote:
As for the cats that sank. I never said I don't believe they sank - I said I don't believe you saw it happen. Makes no difference really, but [...]
Ah, see, I knew you were gonna find a way out of that

Quote:
as I said earlier, whether a cat can or can't sink DEPENDS ON THE BOAT. Some older solid glass boats can sink. There are aluminium cats that could possibly sink. We even saw a STEEL cat this year. Steel boats can sink.
All cats can sink, just put 800 tons of ship on top of them. Now, between that extreme and carrying so little that it will actually not sink is a big range and, IMHO, most cats are in that range because they carry way too much stuff/weight which does cause them to sink.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 24-11-2011, 16:05   #186
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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right. you live aboard full time but keep your stuff incl. lawn-mower that you can ride on at a house that you never live in. Sure, that's a way to do it I guess when you need to keep your boat light us monohullers? We sell most to get enough money and take the rest aboard, no houses, lawn-mowers etc.


Nick.

:whist ling: The key to this comment.
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Old 24-11-2011, 16:47   #187
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

Geeeez Jedi, if I had the money to buy a Sundeer 64 I could buy a house on the beach and a really nice catamaran with money left over to live like a king.
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Old 24-11-2011, 17:27   #188
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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right. you live aboard full time but keep your stuff incl. lawn-mower that you can ride on at a house that you never live in. Sure, that's a way to do it I guess when you need to keep your boat light us monohullers? We sell most to get enough money and take the rest aboard, no houses, lawn-mowers etc.



Ah, see, I knew you were gonna find a way out of that



All cats can sink, just put 800 tons of ship on top of them. Now, between that extreme and carrying so little that it will actually not sink is a big range and, IMHO, most cats are in that range because they carry way too much stuff/weight which does cause them to sink.

ciao!
Nick.
Stick 800 tonnes of lead on your mast and see how your self-righting works.

Please.

IMHO, your HO is incorrect. Again.

If one day you can produce some FACTS, like I have done, something you have to say might be slightly interesting. Until then.....
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Old 24-11-2011, 20:52   #189
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Geeeez Jedi, if I had the money to buy a Sundeer 64 I could buy a house on the beach and a really nice catamaran with money left over to live like a king.
I wish it was true smj :-) most cats cost a lot more than a Sundeer ...

ciao!
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Old 24-11-2011, 21:36   #190
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

I can't believe this thread, some people have WAY too much free time.
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Old 25-11-2011, 01:59   #191
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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I wish it was true smj :-) most cats cost a lot more than a Sundeer ...

ciao!
Nick.
Well - some do. Yachtworld reports that sundeer 64s at 15 years old are round the 3/4 of a million - Australian. Interestingly of the 8 for sail 2 are in new zealand, 2 in Hawaii and 1 in turkey, sounds like people giving up cruising on them?
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Old 25-11-2011, 04:19   #192
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Well - some do. Yachtworld reports that sundeer 64s at 15 years old are round the 3/4 of a million - Australian. Interestingly of the 8 for sail 2 are in new zealand, 2 in Hawaii and 1 in turkey, sounds like people giving up cruising on them?
If there's 8 for sale, then we're the only one not selling as there are 9 total. There are plenty 60' and 56' models though. I know a bunch that aren't selling so there's a bit of mixup or just double listings from multiple brokers...

ciao!
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Old 25-11-2011, 04:21   #193
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I can't believe this thread, some people have WAY too much free time.
Sailors and their stories, always time for another drink and story :-)

ciao!
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Old 25-11-2011, 05:02   #194
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

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Well - some do. Yachtworld reports that sundeer 64s at 15 years old are round the 3/4 of a million - Australian. Interestingly of the 8 for sail 2 are in new zealand, 2 in Hawaii and 1 in turkey, sounds like people giving up cruising on them?
I guess that your data proves that they are very able to cross oceans without sinking
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Old 25-11-2011, 06:25   #195
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Re: Catamaran Capsizes in Galveston Bay

SvBeBe is right - thread drift on such an item in the multihull section is inevitable because so many non-multihullers want to turn it (and anything similar) into an indictment of multihulls generally, rather than a discussion of the specifics.

Brad
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