Catamaran Capsize.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Nice! I'm mono so don't poke around much in things that don't concern me, but if I had a cat, I'd fit some fo sho

More suited to racers, especially single handed racers, these systems are expensive and of limited value to most cruisers.

[boatman61]

More sad news.. Condolences..

[daletournier]

Terrible , was it a schionning?

[picklesandjesse]

The Newcastle Bight can get pretty nasty...... been caught there a couple of times. This is sad news, a bad day. I sold my very fast trimaran a few months ago because I'm too careless. Gone back to a mono, suits me better at 75. Not so much fun but still many other ways to die even on this boat. Best be careful.

[fivecapes]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Terrible , was it a schionning?

Looks like a Spirited 380.

Shades of Wendera.

Condolences to all involved.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I have no idea about cats, but you'd think by now there could be some kind of electronic jammer that would release a sheet when it sensed a lean above a certain angle.... I mean, motorcycles finally have the tech to have abs and traction control incorporating lean, why not this? Lock the main and job into the smart jammer, the cat begins to lean past X degrees, it looses the sheets and maybe prevents a capsize?

Unless it’s the genoa, spinnaker, code zero, or just a rogue wave whilst motoring.

[mabowers]

Originally Posted by Factor

Yes and two people were saved because they were able to hang onto the Capsized boat when it didn't sink.

Irrelevant.

Protect me oh Lord for my boat is so small
My boat is so small and your sea is so wide
Protect me oh Lord

We all have small boats on a big ocean.

[Ozbullwinkle]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

Looks like a Spirited 380.



Shades of Wendera.



Condolences to all involved.

From the photos I have seen of the upturned hull the boat has daggerboards & to my knowledge Spirited 380's don't have these.

[Two Skippies]

That begs the question:
Dagger boards up in big seas?
The reason i ask is that one doesnt want resistance to a wave hitting from the side and risking capsize. Or is my logic wrong?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

From the photos I have seen of the upturned hull the boat has daggerboards & to my knowledge Spirited 380's don't have these.

Spirited 380s have daggerboards. I was on one yesterday.

Other people seem to have different views, but I only use daggerboards to reduce leeway. In the conditions described I wouldn't be using them.

[Ozbullwinkle]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Spirited 380s have daggerboards. I was on one yesterday.

Thanks 44 for the clarification, have you heard confirmation yet of what the cat was, a 380?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Two Skippies

That begs the question:

Dagger boards up in big seas?

The reason i ask is that one doesnt want resistance to a wave hitting from the side and risking capsize. Or is my logic wrong?

Mostly correct.

Leeward daggerboard down will resist sideways slide (say due to a breaking wave) and will act to trip the cat, sort of like what happens to a drifting/sliding car that hits a curb. Up is safer.

Counter intuitively, the windward daggerboard down will actually provide some positive righting force during a sideways slide as it adds downward force to the windward/up-wave hull. Down is safe in moderate conditions. In extreme conditions up is safer.

Generally the only time you would deploy the leeward daggerboard is upwind in light to moderate winds, to decrease leeway. Once you’re fully powered up you probably don’t need both, so lift the leeward board.

For any other point of sail the leeward daggerboard should not be deployed at all. And once the true wind goes past 90 degrees there is no point using any daggerboard at all.

In confused seas we’ll sometimes deploy 30-50% of the windward daggerboard to help the tracking and decrease load on the autopilot.

In light conditions when reaching we’ll often pull up the windward daggerboard and head higher for better apparent wind and counting on higher leeway to keep us on course.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

Thanks 44 for the clarification, have you heard confirmation yet of what the cat was, a 380?

Nothing definite, but what you can see does look like one.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Mostly correct.

Leeward daggerboard down will resist sideways slide (say due to a breaking wave) and will act to trip the cat, sort of like what happens to a drifting/sliding car that hits a curb. Up is safer.

Counter intuitively, the windward daggerboard down will actually provide some positive righting force during a sideways slide as it adds downward force to the windward/up-wave hull. Down is safe in moderate conditions. In extreme conditions up is safer.

Generally the only time you would deploy the leeward daggerboard is upwind in light to moderate winds, to decrease leeway. Once you’re fully powered up you probably don’t need both, so lift the leeward board.

For any other point of sail the leeward daggerboard should not be deployed at all. And once the true wind goes past 90 degrees there is no point using any daggerboard at all.

In confused seas we’ll sometimes deploy 30-50% of the windward daggerboard to help the tracking and decrease load on the autopilot.

In light conditions when reaching we’ll often pull up the windward daggerboard and head higher for better apparent wind and counting on higher leeway to keep us on course.

As you said, mostly correct but not fully..

I've sailed extensively Catana 47, Outremet 51 and a custom 56 ft cat , all with dagger boards. All behave differently in similar conditions. IMHO, there isn't any daggerboard trimming that will fit all boats in every conditions. The sail plan, the beam to length ratio, the hull beam to length ratio, aspect ratio of daggerboards make a huge differences.
Yes there are some general rules but they don't apply to every boat every time.

Meanwhile 1-2 m waves and 30 kt of winds shouldn't suffice to turn over any cat even under full sail, unless for very light boat with a huge sail plan.
You may certainly break something but the boat shouldn't go upside down.
Rogue wave and or microburst should be the only answer.

Cheers

Yeloya

[JPA Cate]

In the photograph accessed by the link in the first post, both boards are sticking up after flipping. Given the discussion above, I'm wondering under what conditions one would have had both boards down?

Still feeling sad about this event. Condolences to all involved.

Ann