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Old 01-07-2014, 14:16   #1
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Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Hi All ..

I have now Gotten a lot of input from many competent and skilled persons and i have really appreciated this Personally I have learn and gain a lot of knowledge, this is the reason for my question . I heard from many that a 50-60 is to big to sail singlehanded or short handed "2 people on board " and tells me that a 38-46 is better and i was wondering why.
Yes i do know the bigger cats are more expensive, higher cost and so on.
But for this part im very well aware of .
But here im more thinking in the area of handing so here comes my Question

What is that makes you believe that these boats are to big.. compared to the smaller once ..
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Old 01-07-2014, 14:52   #2
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Twice the cleaning
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Old 01-07-2014, 14:53   #3
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

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Twice the cleaning
Damm i didt think about that but good point .. ...
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Old 01-07-2014, 15:18   #4
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Higher loads
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Old 01-07-2014, 15:27   #5
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

What do you want to do with the cat? If living aboard in a marina then get the biggest cat you can afford? Coastal cruising with two very fit competent people then you can probably manage a big cat. Crossing oceans? Then you are single handing in essence because somebody is sleeping much of the time. There is a massive jump in everything from 40-60'. In you're in perfect weather and nothing breaks then a bigger cat is fine. If the weather goes bad and the furling line breaks about the time your autopilot dies when a squall hits, you will wish you had a small cat. Flying a spinnaker with a sock on a big cat is a handful for two assuming all goes well. It's really about the hands and the available muscles when crap hits the fan.


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Old 01-07-2014, 17:29   #6
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

My plan it to sail similar to leucat starting in Europe and then across to the Caribbean before heading south around the horn on longer passages we will have 4-6 additional crew on board but for shorter trips we will be between 2-4 people on board

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Old 01-07-2014, 17:53   #7
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

We looked at everything from 40-50 ft. cats and like the 44s most of all. They have enough room without being hard for two people to sail.

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Old 01-07-2014, 18:31   #8
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Oh goodie: another newbie gonna buy a big boat and sail around the Horn...

Mike, all I can say is please get some heavy weather experience BEFORE you predicate a million dollar purchase on following the postulated plan. And I don't mean a summer afternoon thunderstorm with an hour of 50 knot winds.

It is really impossible to understand the difficulties that you will doubtless face without such experience. If you don't already understand why dealing with a very large cat is a daunting process, then you need to get this personal experience before you invest such a large sum.

Cheers,

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Old 01-07-2014, 18:39   #9
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

So can one have a 55ft cat with the rigging of a 40ft cat?
Seems it would just not go as fast, but we are cruising, not racing.
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Old 01-07-2014, 19:08   #10
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
SNIP

Mike, all I can say is please get some heavy weather experience

SNIP
Good advice.

You may want to look at boats like BP5 and Sodeb'O to name two. While not cats these tris are significantly larger than the boats you are considering and are capable of sailing single handed or short handed. Of course the guys (or gals like Dona) are probably better sailors like you are.

I have a cat that suits me well. I have had no problems single handing it, but I am careful about my weather window. Not to mention I sail in the Florida Keys/Bahamas.

If I was considering rounding one of the grate capes I would get a steel hull monohull.
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Old 01-07-2014, 19:23   #11
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

How big a boat have you been on in 25+ winds? nearing 30 winds on my 47 foot mono, I could not physically tighten the headsail sheet with the winch handle. Both hands on a double hand winch handle and foot braced. Pretty darn large winches too! I needed 3 speed winches I guess. But things get really hard, dangerous when not handled well etc on big boats. Sure if you manage your boat perfectly you are better off, but sooner or later, the real world crashes your party.
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Old 01-07-2014, 20:31   #12
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

My experience is (forgetting about cost)

Harder to find a large marina pen
If you can find one it is much harder to park the boat (assuming no bowthrusters)
Four times the cleaning
Harder to find a lift
Harder to control boat if electrics fail
More heads means more problems and more cleaning
More windage - holding problems - larger anchors
Harder to manhandle sailing gear and equipment
Huge pressures on gear - a gear failure can normally be problematic but increases with size of boat

For me, <40' is too small and invokes claustrophobia, >50' invokes fear of handling unless you have a professional skipper, 45' is just about right.

However, at the end of the day this is an individual response. Based on your posts you do not seem to be short of funds. I think you need to spend some to spend significant time on a boat to see for yourself - preferably a boat that you own as I found that it was only by owning and sailing your own boat that real experience was accumulated.

If you were to purchase a mid 40s cat and then find you are comfortable to trade up then the cost would be well worth the money imo.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:20   #13
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Oh goodie: another newbie gonna buy a big boat and sail around the Horn...

Mike, all I can say is please get some heavy weather experience BEFORE you predicate a million dollar purchase on following the postulated plan. And I don't mean a summer afternoon thunderstorm with an hour of 50 knot winds.

It is really impossible to understand the difficulties that you will doubtless face without such experience. If you don't already understand why dealing with a very large cat is a daunting process, then you need to get this personal experience before you invest such a large sum.

Cheers,

Jim
Jim i do plan to do so and i will be sailing and also go out in heavy winds and also plan my Crossing carefully as well so i have the "right" weather window and i do plan that we will have some miles under our belt both on the Cat i end up choosing and also on other cats and Yes im a newbie at this stage but i do believe with the Right Training and with gaining experience i can one day call my self semi experience..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Good advice.

You may want to look at boats like BP5 and Sodeb'O to name two. While not cats these tris are significantly larger than the boats you are considering and are capable of sailing single handed or short handed. Of course the guys (or gals like Dona) are probably better sailors like you are.

I have a cat that suits me well. I have had no problems single handing it, but I am careful about my weather window. Not to mention I sail in the Florida Keys/Bahamas.

If I was considering rounding one of the grate capes I would get a steel hull monohull.
How come would you prefer a mono-hull over a Multihull

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
My experience is (forgetting about cost)

Harder to find a large marina pen

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]I do not plan to be staying in marinas but by anchor mostly [/COLOR]

If you can find one it is much harder to park the boat (assuming no bowthrusters)
This will be an option but based on the knowledge i have gotten so fare it will be depending on the Cat type[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"][/COLOR]

Four times the cleaning
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]Hmm this is a good point.[/COLOR].

Harder to find a lift
How often in avenge do you do so during a year ?

Harder to control boat if electrics fail
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]How often does this happen "plan to have Backup for all important electronic "[/COLOR]

More heads means more problems and more cleaning
i[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]t will be the same a mouth of Heads on both Cats Size[/COLOR]

More windage - holding problems - larger anchors
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]For the windage im aware of that but if bigger should also be more stable can handle bigger swells "this is a question"
[/COLOR]
Harder to manhandle sailing gear and equipment

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]I plan to haqve oversize Whiches "electric " with a back up "[/COLOR]

Huge pressures on gear - a gear failure can normally be problematic but increases with size of boat
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]Good point but i guess if you buy bigger eg .whiches it should be the same pressure as on smaller Cats ??
[/COLOR]
For me, <40' is too small and invokes claustrophobia, >50' invokes fear of handling unless you have a professional skipper, 45' is just about right.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]
I Dont plan to have a professional Skipper on board " only during my Training and learning curve properly for 3 weeks during take over and then again after 9-12 month for a couple of weeks to learn even more "i do believe in Training and learning " (The more knowledge and experience you have the more specific you can get training on things you have less knowledge on )
[/COLOR]

However, at the end of the day this is an individual response. Based on your posts you do not seem to be short of funds.

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]We are all short of funds but i have made my budget with a large margin so i should be okay
[/COLOR]
I think you need to spend some to spend significant time on a boat to see for yourself - preferably a boat that you own as I found that it was only by owning and sailing your own boat that real experience was accumulated.

If you were to purchase a mid 40s cat and then find you are comfortable to trade up then the cost would be well worth the money imo.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]Sorry not quite sure what you mean here .. Can you explain please
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]Im not being Negative .. but look at your questions and responses as positive and valid responses and i hope my reply back with Question will be received in the same manner . I want to gain as much knowledge as i can before before i will start on my Voyage also the reason why im looking in to a Smaller cat and sail on her for a year before i go to the Bigger Cat..[/COLOR]
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:00   #14
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Jim i do plan to do so and i will be sailing and also go out in heavy winds and also plan my Crossing carefully as well so i have the "right" weather window and i do plan that we will have some miles under our belt both on the Cat i end up choosing and also on other cats and Yes im a newbie at this stage but i do believe with the Right Training and with gaining experience i can one day call my self semi experience..
Mike, this is where your lack of experience is leading you astray: you CAN NOT get "right weather windows" for doubling the Horn. This feat covers over a thousand miles of seas where "windows" are short and very rare. No one does this passage without experiencing VERY harsh conditions. Cruising catamarans (and most monohulls too) are not designed to deal with such stresses.

Yachts are lost every year down there, often manned by folks with good credentials and in good boats. Your thoughts of a few weeks of training, from scratch, and a year buggering about in the Med or Caribe don't really prepare you for the task.

But, it is your money and your life, to do with as you please. My whole point it responding to your thread is to try to get you to understand the magnitude of the voyage that you so blithely propose. Until you have experienced some F10+ conditions for a few days in the sort of boat you anticipate using, you just can't evaluate the difficulty of succeeding.

I won't keep on with this for I've had my say... so good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Jim
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:07   #15
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

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Originally Posted by mikethedane View Post
<snip>

I heard from many that a 50-60 is to big to sail singlehanded or short handed "2 people on board " and tells me that a 38-46 is better and i was wondering why.
<snip>

so here comes my Question

What is that makes you believe that these boats are to big.. compared to the smaller once ..
This is obvious - bigger boats are bigger boats - Captain Cook couldn't sail the HMS Endeavor single handed. At some point a boat is too big to handle solo in all conditions.

Most of the experts around here (with tons of experience) draw single/couple operated boat line at around 40-45 feet - and that considers the spouse is crew and not passenger.

I don't know what is confusing about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethedane View Post
My plan it to sail similar to leucat starting in Europe and then across to the Caribbean before heading south around the horn on longer passages we will have 4-6 additional crew on board but for shorter trips we will be between 2-4 people on board

Sent from my HTC One using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
You ask about 2 handing or single handing then talk about all the crew you will have on board.

So the 4-6 additional crew are competent sailors?

What about the normal 2-4 people on board. Are these competent crew or kids?

You really aren't making any sense.

If you can afford 60 feet, I say go for it. People with money should buy the biggest damn boat they can afford. You'll figure out whether you can sail it or not after you get it. In the meantime a lot of poor people will make some money. Brokers, surveyors, outfitters, insurance agents, marina owners, dockhands, provisioners.

The 1%-ers need to spread that cash around...

OTOH - If you really have millions - go charter a crewed 60 foot cat for a week and see for yourself what is involved. Small investment for someone with a million+ to spend on a boat.

Then after you buy the boat hire a skipper for 6-months to live aboard and teach you.
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