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Old 02-07-2014, 04:16   #16
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

mikethedane,

You might be interested to read about the abandonment earlier this year of a brand new catamaran off the US, and the flipping of the Atlantic 55 or 57 near Tonga last year. Both events had CF threads.

As someone else has written, with the larger cats, there are huge forces generated. The winds and seas can also generate huge forces on the vessels. What they don't teach you in school is how to handle extreme conditions. That, usually takes either experience or very great good luck.

Just sayin'.

Ann
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:35   #17
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
This is obvious - bigger boats are bigger boats -
You ask about 2 handing or single handing then talk about all the crew you will have on board.

for Shorter passage it will be me and my GF but when we will Cross the Atlantic we will have additional Crew on board some will have Experience and some might not have but i personally believe in Team work and working as team and then the big questions comes when are you experience sailor ??

when you have sailed in the med for 5 years or when you have crossed the Atlantic 5 times during the passage trades ?

So the 4-6 additional crew are competent sailors?

What about the normal 2-4 people on board. Are these competent crew or kids?

When would any one think kids are Crew ??

You really aren't making any sense.

I might not make sense to you . "but again you seem like you are just being negative on my approach "

I asking questions because i want to learn and gain knowledge not to start an argument

If you can afford 60 feet, I say go for it. People with money should buy the biggest damn boat they can afford. You'll figure out whether you can sail it or not after you get it. In the meantime a lot of poor people will make some money. Brokers, surveyors, outfitters, insurance agents, marina owners, dockhands, provisioners.


This is not the question at all ..

The 1%-ers need to spread that cash around...

OTOH - If you really have millions - go charter a crewed 60 foot cat for a week and see for yourself what is involved. Small investment for someone with a million+ to spend on a boat.

I will be charting a boat and it will be one of those that i plan to buy unless i find some one who already own one of these boats and join them for a trip



Then after you buy the boat hire a skipper for 6-months to live aboard and teach you.
pretty similar to what i wrote that i would hire a Skipper for periods of time in order to gain more knowledge on my Cat.

for me it is similar you dont start with being a CEO for a large company you either grow within the company or you learn in the smaller companies first before moving in the bigger once

for me it is simple you get the theory first and gain knowledge and you learn on the way..

and again try to be positive as a person and if you have the experience/knowledge

Then show it by being supportive instead of hammering people down ..

and I will personaly be happy to have caple people on board during the crossing and sailing in some areas

Like i will be happy to show my support and share my knowledge to people who plan to sail From Europe to Greenland on the east or west coast and also how to predict Ice charts and weather panthers for that area


Sorry to be so negative
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:40   #18
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom and Maje View Post
We looked at everything from 40-50 ft. cats and like the 44s most of all. They have enough room without being hard for two people to sail.

Maje

Hi There what boat will you be ending up with ?
I can see you have made a choice yet. but what have you been focusing on when it comes to your cat ? and which area are you planing to sail in ?
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:42   #19
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
mikethedane,

You might be interested to read about the abandonment earlier this year of a brand new catamaran off the US, and the flipping of the Atlantic 55 or 57 near Tonga last year. Both events had CF threads.

As someone else has written, with the larger cats, there are huge forces generated. The winds and seas can also generate huge forces on the vessels. What they don't teach you in school is how to handle extreme conditions. That, usually takes either experience or very great good luck.

Just sayin'.

Ann
Hi Ann

do you remenber what the Tread was called so i can search for it .
Thank you in advance
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:46   #20
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Just curious, why do you want to sail around Cape Horn? You can get your ears pierced at just about any old tattoo parlor these days.

It does have a romantic lure I suppose, but so does going to war have appeal to young boys. True also, it is a place of great beauty and I can understand going there because of that reason alone.

However, if you are just trying to get from the Atlantic to the Pacific there is a less circuitous route called the Panama Canal which you might consider, favored by most.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:52   #21
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethedane View Post
pretty similar to what i wrote that i would hire a Skipper for periods of time in order to gain more knowledge on my Cat.

for me it is similar you dont start with being a CEO for a large company you either grow within the company or you learn in the smaller companies first before moving in the bigger once

for me it is simple you get the theory first and gain knowledge and you learn on the way..

and again try to be positive as a person and if you have the experience/knowledge

Then show it by being supportive instead of hammering people down ..

and I will personaly be happy to have caple people on board during the crossing and sailing in some areas

Like i will be happy to show my support and share my knowledge to people who plan to sail From Europe to Greenland on the east or west coast and also how to predict Ice charts and weather panthers for that area


Sorry to be so negative
I also do not want to appear negative (although maybe a littel sarcastic).

Rather than knock people's plans apart it is sometimes useful for us to understand the desire and help figure out how it can be done.

Hiring crew and skippers also has a lot of pitfalls to be wary of.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:54   #22
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Just curious, why do you want to sail around Cape Horn? You can get your ears pierced at just about any old tattoo parlor these days.

It does have a romantic lure I suppose, but so does going to war have appeal to young boys. True also, it is a place of great beauty and I can understand going there because of that reason alone.

However, if you are just trying to get from the Atlantic to the Pacific there is a less circuitous route called the Panama Canal which you might consider, favored by most.

Im aware of the panama Canal and i will cross it as well on my way back from the north-East passage and why do i want to do it.. hmm good question really but i guess to say i have done it. i have crossed Caps in Greenland and South Africa

and of course i will do allot of Research before going there and also making sure i will have the right Crew members on board ..
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:01   #23
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
I also do not want to appear negative (although maybe a littel sarcastic).

Rather than knock people's plans apart it is sometimes useful for us to understand the desire and help figure out how it can be done.

Hiring crew and skippers also has a lot of pitfalls to be wary of.
And im open to Answer question and learn from those who have done it. and when it comes to hiring Crew and skippers i can only agree with you .

and finding the right crew menbers or the right skipper to help you is again something you can talk with other people about during your selection process

and the most important thing is how is your Chemistry ..

on another topic are you Malay since you have Lah in your Signature
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:17   #24
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

I typically encourage most folks to start off small, as in get a 3m or 4m sailing dinghy to master the basics before stepping up in size. This is because they are very small and simple to understand and most people will learn much more quickly to become competent sailors on a small boat rather than a big boat.

Unfortunately, this scenario doesn't usually have a lot of appeal to someone with a bunch of money who sees themselves in command of a enviable yacht as they sail the high seas. So most people just go buy the big boat they dream of.

For many the dream dies there when they realize they can't handle the big boat, so it just sits there at the dock before they get bored and move onto other interests. However, the last thing I would ever want to do is stand in the way of anyone's dreams. Good Luck!
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:27   #25
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

I do get your point and I have partly done so I started with sailing when I was around 10 years old And I will start with 30' catamaran in 2015 and sail mainly in northern Europe and in 2016 i will start sailing in the med and probably the black sea on the cat of my choice before crossing over the Atlantic during the arc and my best guess is I will cross the cap during 2017 or 2018 depends on the time I will spend in the Caribbean and east coast of south America

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Old 02-07-2014, 05:54   #26
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethedane View Post
I do get your point and I have partly done so I started with sailing when I was around 10 years old And I will start with 30' catamaran in 2015 and sail mainly in northern Europe and in 2016 i will start sailing in the med and probably the black sea on the cat of my choice before crossing over the Atlantic during the arc and my best guess is I will cross the cap during 2017 or 2018 depends on the time I will spend in the Caribbean and east coast of south America

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I am not as experienced as most folks who gave you advice so far, so I will limit myself to only one suggestion. Replace most/all occurrences of 'I will' with 'I plan to' in your statement.

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Old 02-07-2014, 05:55   #27
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Mike,

as I have stated before in another thread the max size is for me determined by what my wife and I can handle if things go wrong. Reefing the mainsail is definitely close to the limit - usually I go up front if the weather is acting up, because it takes strength to bring down the sail, tighten the strap etc.

Another thing is the weight of the anchor - at 34 kg it is just about the max I want to lift without hurting my back - and you will have to do that from time to time.

Would I love a 60 footer cat? Sure, with a minimum of 4 people I would, but that would take away something essential from a circumnavigation done by just the two of us. And for two people our boat is roomy and comfortable.

Enjoy the hunt - it can be a lot of fun until you find exactly what you want...

Oliver
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:55   #28
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Mike,

You haven't told us much about yourself other than you seem determined and have done some trekking in Greenland and elsewhere.

IMHO a large part of the decision depends upon who you are and what you bring to the table in terms of knowledge and skill, but also physical and mental toughness.

With money you can buy a big boat, but you gotta be mentally and physically tough to single hand any boat on long voyages.

That is a lot different from being successful in business.

And I'm not speaking of just dramatic events but the mundane **** that happens and wears you down. And you are dragging your wife into this as well. Imagine you get sick on a crossing. She now has to handle the boat. She has to stand all the watches, gets tired, worn down, needs to cook and care for you. Or visa versa, you for her. It gets old, your morale goes to hell, you loose will.

Or maybe not, some few folks are tough as nails. But one never knows until one has screwed up and been there. I don't know about me, and hope to never find out.

For what it's worth, my first sail was on my own boat, 33footer, singlehanded up the coast of Nova Scotia. So I understand the desire to just get out there and do it, and in having faith in yourself. I also understand, through experience, that at times even 33' can be a lot to handle.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:44   #29
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethedane View Post
SNIP


How come would you prefer a mono-hull over a Multihull

SNIP[/COLOR]
What I posted was my first choice for a boat to round the great capes would be a monohull. I also posted my choice for a boat to singlehand in the Florida Keys and Bahamas was my Seawind catamaran.

There is a huge difference between sailing in tropical or semi tropical waters and in the 40s and 50s, and there is not really a single boat that fits the requirements for sailing in both areas. Both BP5 and Sodeb'O are capable of rounding the great capes, but both boats have also been forced to retire from attempts of significant passages due to hitting debris. On the other hand there have been many steel hull monohulls that have hit debris in significant passages and continued on with no real problems.

A good analogy would be making a choice between a dump truck and a Corvette. If you are taking a date to the prom the Corvette is a good choice, but if you need to haul a load of rocks to build a road the dump truck is a better choice. You just need to figure out if you are going to the prom or building a road.
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Old 02-07-2014, 06:57   #30
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Re: Catamaran 38-46 Foot Vs 50-60 foot

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A good analogy would be making a choice between a dump truck and a Corvette. If you are taking a date to the prom the Corvette is a good choice, but if you need to haul a load of rocks to build a road the dump truck is a better choice. You just need to figure out if you are going to the prom or building a road.
You haven't met my prom date...
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