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Old 12-08-2015, 22:10   #1
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Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Hi, I am new here but have done a fair bit of cruising back in the days of mono's

I am looking to buy a Cat for cruising so lets leave mono's out of this please.


From what I read there are HUGE differences in types of Cats

1st type;
these are the most common, house-a-marans, with space and comfort first without much consideration for sailing performance, these suit the charter market where they use the motors a lot and just want party have fun and see the sights. they are heavy and they tend to build too much cabin and have the wider load carrying slower hulls.

2nd type
Performance Cats, they are lighter with long sleek hulls and daggerboards they sail well on all points and usually have nothing forward of the mast except the anchor set-up and tramps, they have low windage cabins and much less comfort but still plenty of space but need to be kept light.

3rd type
Somewhere in between, are non daggerboard cats that people claim sail well and have a bit more comfort. I am yet to be convinced, but I would like to be. One that can beat to weather when needed and sail it's self off a lee shore.

I have narrowed it down it what I need weight wise

1. watermaker, I might start a separate thread on this, we like to drink good water!
2. decent sized freezer
3. decent sized Fridge
4. Owners cabin with owners bathroom

I would also like the cat not too big so I do not need crew but room for a crewman if needed/wanted

size wise I read lots of things change at different sizes, there seems to be steps where these happen.

Cheers!

C-man
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Old 12-08-2015, 22:28   #2
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C-man77 View Post
Hi, I am new here but have done a fair bit of cruising back in the days of mono's

I am looking to buy a Cat for cruising so lets leave mono's out of this please.


From what I read there are HUGE differences in types of Cats

1st type;
these are the most common, house-a-marans, with space and comfort first without much consideration for sailing performance, these suit the charter market where they use the motors a lot and just want party have fun and see the sights. they are heavy and they tend to build too much cabin and have the wider load carrying slower hulls.

2nd type
Performance Cats, they are lighter with long sleek hulls and daggerboards they sail well on all points and usually have nothing forward of the mast except the anchor set-up and tramps, they have low windage cabins and much less comfort but still plenty of space but need to be kept light.

3rd type
Somewhere in between, are non daggerboard cats that people claim sail well and have a bit more comfort. I am yet to be convinced, but I would like to be. One that can beat to weather when needed and sail it's self off a lee shore.

I have narrowed it down it what I need weight wise

1. watermaker, I might start a separate thread on this, we like to drink good water!
2. decent sized freezer
3. decent sized Fridge
4. Owners cabin with owners bathroom

I would also like the cat not too big so I do not need crew but room for a crewman if needed/wanted

size wise I read lots of things change at different sizes, there seems to be steps where these happen.

Cheers!

C-man
Well you have identified the 3 basic types, so well done, that's a good place to start. Now all you have to do is match your requirements to the most appropriate boat type first, then go see boats that are in that category. Easy eh?
For example, for our retirement bluewater liveaboard cruiser my wife and I chose a FreeFlow 46 because it was a category 3 boat i.e. not a charter design and not a go fast boat, but had the best of both ends of the spectrum.

We wanted better performance than the wide hulled charter designs especially for light wind sailing, good payload capacity for liveaboard cruising, easy sail handling, and enough space for liveability. If I sit on the transom my wife is 8 meters (27 feet) away sitting on the saloon seat! In a 46 foot boat!

So it depends on your priorities, what kind of cruising you plan on doing and where, budget ...and what boat you fall in love with
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Old 12-08-2015, 22:32   #3
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Fine, I will bite. I don't know how much traction you're going to get with such a broad question, so let's try narrowing a bit more. Where are you planning on sailing and are you interested in a $100k boat or a $2million boat?
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Old 13-08-2015, 01:30   #4
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

The boat should pretty much go where ever we want it too, so I don't see the relevance with destinations, but yes, full time liveaboard cruising as a retirement if that helps.


budget of around $400K unless I win lotto

with used cats what is the safe age limit before they require too much repairs ect.

I notice the prices drop with age sometimes and sometimes not?

C-man
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Old 13-08-2015, 02:24   #5
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

The relevance to cruising areas can make a significant difference.

Will you be mostly in the tropics and need lots of ventilation in cabins, saloon & cockpit; plenty of light airs sailing low parasitic drag hull shapes);great refrigeration?

Or crossing oceans and higher/lower latitudes so protected helm; ability to close in cockpit; strong attachments for parachute anchor; daggerboards for working to weather, etc. may come in handy?

Horses for courses.
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Old 13-08-2015, 02:38   #6
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

I was impressed by the Sunreef 74 I saw recently. I could switch to a cat for one of them. The Sunreef 58 looks pretty good too, but I've only seen photos of it. Given that the sailing controls lead to the cockpit and much can be electrified, it should be easy enough for two experienced sailors to handle either of them and on long passages, a solo watch should be fine.

(Might be handy to mention budget and skills of both persons on board &#128521


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Old 13-08-2015, 02:39   #7
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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The relevance to cruising areas can make a significant difference.

Will you be mostly in the tropics and need lots of ventilation in cabins, saloon & cockpit; plenty of light airs sailing low parasitic drag hull shapes);great refrigeration?

Or crossing oceans and higher/lower latitudes so protected helm; ability to close in cockpit; strong attachments for parachute anchor; daggerboards for working to weather, etc. may come in handy?

Horses for courses.
OK, tropics, lots of ventilation and protection from the sun and rain. she wants comfort and I want performance.

I like to sail, I have crewed on a 3 schooners way back when they were wood and owned 4 mono,s and lived aboard and criused for 10 years, again way back when all we had was kerosene lamps and running lights,no refrigeration, a compass a sextant and charts, ......All obsolete now thank god.

I was thinking 38-42 foot but open to whatever
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Old 13-08-2015, 03:01   #8
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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OK, tropics, lots of ventilation and protection from the sun and rain. she wants comfort and I want performance.

I like to sail, I have crewed on a 3 schooners way back when they were wood and owned 4 mono,s and lived aboard and criused for 10 years, again way back when all we had was kerosene lamps and running lights,no refrigeration, a compass a sextant and charts, ......All obsolete now thank god.

I was thinking 38-42 foot but open to whatever

hi would look at the Nautitech "bavaria" open 40 great design and from people WHO has sailed they sail really well and you can almost get a new one for that Price.
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Old 13-08-2015, 03:44   #9
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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hi would look at the Nautitech "bavaria" open 40 great design and from people WHO has sailed they sail really well and you can almost get a new one for that Price.
Thanks Catbuyer

Some interesting concepts with the open plan, I used to love sleeping in the cockpit

I would be curious as to how well it really sails, and where they are built these days.

I like the direction new cats are going these days

Utube video in Russian

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr...ria%22+open+40
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Old 13-08-2015, 05:49   #10
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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2nd type
Performance Cats, they are lighter with long sleek hulls and daggerboards they sail well on all points and usually have nothing forward of the mast except the anchor set-up and tramps, they have low windage cabins and much less comfort but still plenty of space but need to be kept light.
Much less comfort? I think you're mistaken on this point. These type cats, compared to your type 1's, may have less interior volume (for a given length) and 2 instead of 4 heads, but this doesn't mean they're at all less comfortable. You may conclude that underway, because they're better sailing boats, they are more comfortable. If you consider my boat as one of these types, I can assure you we do not suffer for comfort.

How many cats of each of these types have you sailed or spent time on?

Dave
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Old 13-08-2015, 12:14   #11
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

If I were you I would look at the daggerboard cats: they are usually faster and can point better.
As for a watermaker, I have found no use for one if one is sailing in the North Atlantic and Caribbean only. There are so many places to get good water, and so many ways a watermaker can screw up, and they require constant maintenance. I delivered a boat to the Pacific many years ago, and the owner figured that including "all" costs (purchase price, installation, diesel to run the genset to power the watermaker, filters, time spent to operate it, purge it, replace filters, buy and install replacement parts, etc.), the water they made in two years of cruising cost about as much as cheap champagne, maybe $40/gallon. Is it worth it to you not go go ashore once every two weeks or so and buy water for $.10/gallon?
If you have any doubts, get a watermaker after a year or two aboard.
-Steve
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Old 13-08-2015, 12:29   #12
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

I'll have to differ somewhat with my good friend Steve on the water maker. While he is correct that you can usually find water when you're in populated areas, although not necessarily free water, there are many places where you cannot - especially if you like to cruise in remote areas (unless, of course, you get it out of the sky). If you cruise from marina to marina you don't need one.

I've had excellent service from my (now) 14 year old Spectra 380c with reasonable maintenance. I've replaced the membrane once and replaced feed pumps a few times. We have never taken on water from an external source (except Mother Nature) while cruising. Not a drop. And it runs on 12vdc recharged by solars. I cannot imagine cruising without it.

Dave
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Old 13-08-2015, 12:35   #13
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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You may conclude that underway, because they're better sailing boats, they are more comfortable.
While this is certainly true for some, the converse may be true for others. Some will worry, right or wrong, that a performance cat is more likely to capsize in an unexpected gust. Cruising is no fun if you're scared of the boat.
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Old 13-08-2015, 13:16   #14
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

One of the things I think is great about this forum is that people like Dave and I can disagree with each other without calling each other names or anything. Dave is a very experienced sailor and I listen to him all the time.
-Steve
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Old 13-08-2015, 13:48   #15
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

I think better classification of cats is: pick two of these three main attributes: price, performance, comfort. And no, I do not think that load carrying capability is something for charter boats only. Load any narrow hulls performance cat with provisions, spare parts, cruising equipment, etc. and you will get cat that sails much worse than what you call 'charter cat'. True, charters do not care much about sailing, but that does not mean that charter cats cannot sail. And for light winds you can always add light-wind sail, which are rarely found on charter cats.
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