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Old 14-08-2015, 23:07   #31
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

C-man

In case you haven't yet, you can also have a look at Multihull Dynamics website Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - Home where you can compare cats to each other re objective stats about the boat and the relevant ratios, bridgedeck clearance, performance indicators etc.

A very handy reference site indeed.

Re light air performance in cats, look for Lwl/Bh to give an indication of how "slippery" a hull is likely to be i.e. the amount of parasitic drag the hull shapes create. Higher ratios like 12:1 tend to be finer, more "slippery" hull shapes, lower ratios like 8:1 are wide at the waterline.

Lowering parasitic drag is all about how the designer has reduced wave making at the bow AND "put the water back together" at the sterns. Charter designs tend to have wide rounded to flatish bottoms at the sterns that creates alot of drag & turbulence.

You CAN have good seakeeping, light air performance ( SO important in the tropics), and payload capacity, but the hull design and weight distribution has to be right, and you may need to go 1 boat size up compared to a condomaran to carry the same payload without killing the light air performance.

But to my mind, it's worth it.
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Old 15-08-2015, 05:10   #32
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Catana 38 looks like a good sailing affordable boat

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Old 15-08-2015, 05:20   #33
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Seawinds were on my short list if I ever got the money.
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Old 15-08-2015, 06:35   #34
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Some of the same boats mentioned in the posts above have made it to my short list. Specially the nautitech open 40'which I sailed and was impressed with. I am interested in the seawind 1250 but have not sailed one yet. Hoping to at the Annapolis show. I'm looking to buy in mid 2017 and hope recent new models like the open 40 and the outremer 45 might have some boats for sale in the used market by then.

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Old 15-08-2015, 06:55   #35
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Re: Cay vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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Originally Posted by C-man77 View Post
I was thinking 38-42 foot but open to whatever
Will You build in Europe, or pefer Your closer areas like Australia/New Zealand/Thailand/ ... ... ?
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Old 15-08-2015, 12:08   #36
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Our Leopard 40 is 39'6", but we get charged for 39'. She also has a high bridge deck clearance. That was one thing I was not negotiable on.

I agree that it's nice if one can charter the boat they are looking at buying. We were lucky enough to do that with ours. I, quite frankly, thought I'd like something a little larger, but I was wrong. She is really the perfect size for Tom and me. She is also easy to single handle as all but the mainsheet is run to the helm.

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Old 15-08-2015, 12:25   #37
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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Our Leopard 40 is 39'6", but we get charged for 39'. She also has a high bridge deck clearance. That was one thing I was not negotiable on.

I agree that it's nice if one can charter the boat they are looking at buying. We were lucky enough to do that with ours. I, quite frankly, thought I'd like something a little larger, but I was wrong. She is really the perfect size for Tom and me. She is also easy to single handle as all but the mainsheet is run to the helm.

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Main halyard?
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Old 15-08-2015, 12:28   #38
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

The main halyard is on the mast. It could be run back to the cockpit pretty easily.

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Old 15-08-2015, 17:32   #39
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

C-man77,
I hereby cast another vote for FP Belize 43. We have had ours since it was built for us in 2003 and have put close to 30,000 miles on her. It meets most of your criteria for your compromise category 3: a comfortable, well-ventilated boat that also sails well. It has one of the highest bridge deck clearances in its class (something you appreciate immediately when sailing into any sea over 1.5 meters. All that is forward of the mast is the anchor locker (including a small box for the propane bottle), trampoline, and two small seats on the bows.

Depending on your timeframe for purchasing your dream, we might be able to work something out. We do have a watermaker, though, and are very happy with it. PM me if you want more details about the boat and our plans.
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Old 15-08-2015, 22:49   #40
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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Originally Posted by BigBeakie View Post
C-man

In case you haven't yet, you can also have a look at Multihull Dynamics website Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - Home where you can compare cats to each other re objective stats about the boat and the relevant ratios, bridgedeck clearance, performance indicators etc.

A very handy reference site indeed.

Re light air performance in cats, look for Lwl/Bh to give an indication of how "slippery" a hull is likely to be i.e. the amount of parasitic drag the hull shapes create. Higher ratios like 12:1 tend to be finer, more "slippery" hull shapes, lower ratios like 8:1 are wide at the waterline.

Lowering parasitic drag is all about how the designer has reduced wave making at the bow AND "put the water back together" at the sterns. Charter designs tend to have wide rounded to flatish bottoms at the sterns that creates alot of drag & turbulence.

You CAN have good seakeeping, light air performance ( SO important in the tropics), and payload capacity, but the hull design and weight distribution has to be right, and you may need to go 1 boat size up compared to a condomaran to carry the same payload without killing the light air performance.

But to my mind, it's worth it.
BB
I have worked that out now, coming to the conclusion that I will need to go up in size rather than sacrifice performance to get her required comfort.

Only problem with the 40 foot plus boats is I want to sail most of the time just the wife and I accept for any crossings where I would get a good crewman for help.
wondering how big I can go and still handle it, the wife is not much for crewing
A damm good auto pilot would be a must.

Thanks for this information and I will check out the site when I get a chance
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Old 16-08-2015, 00:01   #41
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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Originally Posted by C-man77 View Post
BB
Only problem with the 40 foot plus boats is I want to sail most of the time just the wife and I accept for any crossings where I would get a good crewman for help.
wondering how big I can go and still handle it, the wife is not much for crewing
A damm good auto pilot would be a must.

Thanks for this information and I will check out the site when I get a chance
Apart from docking/mooring, you should be able to handle a 40-45ft cat solo with no problems as long as you have:

a. autopilot
b. furling headsail(s)
b. electric winch(es)
c. control lines run back to the cockpit.
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Old 16-08-2015, 01:11   #42
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

And can I add a mainsail that is not a beast to handle i.e.reef in a hurry
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Old 16-08-2015, 02:21   #43
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

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And can I add a mainsail that is not a beast to handle i.e.reef in a hurry
Very important! After a potentially bad encounter with 55 knots and the main still up - fully reefed but still up - we had all the main handling lines brought back to the cockpit AND added a downhaul. With the downhaul we could bring the main all the way down, still full of wind if we had to, in no time at all. Came in very useful a couple of times and great peace of mind for a short-handed crew.
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Old 16-08-2015, 02:46   #44
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

For sure a Main that can be reefed without too much struggle

do they still have "jiffy reefing" systems? same as a down haul I would imagine

that is what we had back in my day

I do not want a big powerful rig,

I want easily driven hulls that perform well with less rig

Outremer's are one that I know of in this category
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Old 16-08-2015, 04:15   #45
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Re: Cat vs Cat vs Cat which one to buy?

Outremers definitely....and FreeFlows, which are specifically designed with the aft mast wishbone rig for that reason.

Out of interest, run the comparison between the Outremer 45 and FreeFlow 46.

You may be surprised
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