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Old 04-05-2014, 21:47   #46
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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Originally Posted by Nauticatarcher View Post
Good place to sink, not too far from rescue right in a very busy shipping lane, sea not too bad and hopefully a nice quick insurance payout, whilst I hate to cast dispersions on anyones character these thoughts do cross ones mind
Rest assured the insurers can read and will also have a lot of questions in that regard. Even if strictly coincidence, there will be suspicion cast.

Crew of five but it appears from what has been written so far only 3 total bilge pumps for a 50 foot catamaran. Now that may not be the case. However, if it is, then it's terribly insufficient.
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Old 04-05-2014, 22:29   #47
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

3 pumps per hull maybe.
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Old 04-05-2014, 22:30   #48
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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3 pumps per hull maybe.
How many pumps does yours have total?
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Old 04-05-2014, 22:44   #49
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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Originally Posted by sparau View Post
Yes, I was wondering where the snotty conditions could have come from, localised squall? The ocean the past 2 days has been like a millpond at the shore and very light or non existent winds.
I'm really confused. The report was dated the 4th May. I am at Manly in Morton bay and since Friday night 2nd we have had winds in excess of 25 and gusts over 30 knots in the bay and we are not that far from Mooloolabah were they where taken. The BOM issues a strong wind warning and all. Seas in the bay where very uncomfortable so outside was probably not real nice. So I don't understand how it is like a mill pond
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Old 04-05-2014, 23:18   #50
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

Would a fifty foot Catamaran carry a 3 inch, High Pressure Bilge pump for a thru hull failure,

Highly unlikely,

You have approx 5 Thru hulls, Thats the first thing you check, all of them,
If they are not leaking, Its Very Obvious if they are, Whack a plug in it,

Cracked seam, How do you find that, Under a foot of water and Crap in the dark,
My Bilge Pumps are great for pumping the water out of the hull while I have a shower, Any thing more, Forget it,

Five people in an Insurance scam, They will do time, They couldnt possibly not talk about it,
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Old 05-05-2014, 00:01   #51
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Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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Originally Posted by Amnesia II View Post
The above is very fair comment and worth remembering when expounding sabotage theories on this sad event. It's beyond belief in my opinion that the skipper would risk his own life and his crews life, leave the boat in the dark in rough sea conditions to collect an insurance payout. Ridiculous!

I am not suggesting in any way that this boat was following suit BUT my father acquired a large steel NZ registered boat which was an attempted scuttle for insurance. Was taken out to just past Cape Moreton ( not far from this cat maybe), slashed the inlets and as the yacht was settling in the water hopped into the dingy and broadcast a Mayday. What they did not expect was a navy boat just nearby which hastened to the rescue, saved the yacht and people and escorted back to Brisbane. My father picked it up at a government auction for next to nothing and rebuilt it. Just saying it does happen. NOT suggesting so in this case. And with a few people on board!


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Old 05-05-2014, 00:56   #52
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

Have to say that the chances of a bogus insurance claim are about "nil" in this instance as the owner was bringing the boat to Australia from New Zealand to sell it, he had on board a paid delivery skipper, crew arranged by the skipper, a chef, a mate and himself. They left NZ on about 24/4 and were only 16nm from Mooloolaba, from all the reports they battled the water for some time and didn't decide to leave until the starboard motor failed.

The Milpond water was looking from land (east Coast)to the sea with a westerly blowing WTF do you expect in this condition (hardly 10 ft seas dropping on the beach) when i looked out to sea early Sunday morning the sea looked pretty rough to me , it was millpond for say 1-2 nm then very lumpy.

Yes a 50 ft cat should not have failed and (in hindsight) they could have turned around to stop water coming over the bows but maybe they did, the boat was very well equipped and was "professionally Maintained" The owner and i had spoken via email before this trip, and he was very proud of his boat.

He has been a little further than a run up the coast with no problems so why with 3 people on board he hardly knows and a mate, would he try to scuttle his own boat, i would have thought the paid delivery skipper would have "looked over every inch" to determine this leak cause and try to fix it, it was at night and it was not found (the owner say's) No skipper wants this on his list of accomplishments. Someone in an above post said the owner was well heeled,so the need to do this is even less one would think????

Yes it can look like a scam but sometimes these things happen, it was not the first boat to have split open hulls in these waters and won't be the last.

i doubt it has sunk as we have all seen the L450 that hit a reef and was floated into a harbour without any hulls below the waterline, but after water intrusion of this nature what is left is probably not worth saving .
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:27   #53
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

Hi Alan

It is a pity. I was looking forward to seeing this boat. I do not think he would have problems selling it.

Chris
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:40   #54
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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Glad they got off ok!

Apropos another thread or two having a quick scan of their blog. Its the story of a three year circumnavigation... But mum and the kids have gotten off half way around and dad has continued on until he changes his mind and is off to sell the boat.
I didnt read the reasons for each of the decisions, though they may well be in the blog.

Point I am making is that cruising long range is difficult in many ways. Family turns out to be very important and when one part of the family (usually she) wants out, the other person and the boat can be a loooooong way from anywhere.

If this forum would make a subforum with all the boats lost, or needed rescue we could get a much better idea of the real problems at sea.
I have suggested it before, but its fallen on deaf ears.

As for this particular sinking... Wouldnt a popped thru hull be much more likely than loss of hull integrity?


Mark
I'd be betting on the hull/deck join opening up.

When we sailed back to Bundaberg from Vanuatu, there was a Lagoon (IIRC a 440) coming back from New Caledonia, which had the hull/deck join open up aft of the chainplate. This join appeared to be only held together with Sikaflex.

That boat was close to sinking too, (or at least flooding to the point it was no longer capable of navigation), bilge pumps weren't keeping up, the motor in that hull became unusable.... fortunately they were close enough to Australia, they were able to change course, take the seas on the other quarter, and shelter behind Lady Musgrave island.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:44   #55
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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I'm really confused. The report was dated the 4th May. I am at Manly in Morton bay and since Friday night 2nd we have had winds in excess of 25 and gusts over 30 knots in the bay and we are not that far from Mooloolabah were they where taken. The BOM issues a strong wind warning and all. Seas in the bay where very uncomfortable so outside was probably not real nice. So I don't understand how it is like a mill pond
Interesting, I saw they cancelled the strong wind warning and I was at the beach 20km north 5 hours after they were picked up and the day before and it was the stillest and quietest both wind and swell I had near ever seen it.

I suppose it just goes to show how localised conditions can be, inshore the swell had probably been flattened by the winds offshore.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:58   #56
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

Note that I said the insurers will question what happened after reading it was for sale. I seriously doubt anything of an untoward nature and suspect it was just a weakness in construction versus the conditions. It's not always the sheer force but sometimes just the combination of conditions. Cracks are not unknown to Lagoons although relatively rare compared to the number of boats produced. The torsion involved in a sailing catamaran can be extreme. You're talking so many different forces. The minor creaks you often hear just are a slight indication. But you have wind waves, swells, current, and wind all hitting both hulls separately. Then you add the force of the wind to the sail. And sometimes to that the force of motoring. When they twist such on just one area of weakness then cracks and breaks can occur.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:04   #57
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

Just a speculation: how old was the boat? Maybe those stupid brass thru-hulls that Lagoon uses instead of proper ones corroded and broke. I broke 1.5" brass sh.t with my bare (weaker left) hand on my last boat...
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:17   #58
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

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Just a speculation: how old was the boat? Maybe those stupid brass thru-hulls that Lagoon uses instead of proper ones corroded and broke. I broke 1.5" brass sh.t with my bare (weaker left) hand on my last boat...
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:22   #59
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

There are 11-12 through hulls on such a cat.
As an owner of a 440 that i have sailed through this area many many times in a lot worse conditions i would put my money on a through hull failure of some type long before split/ failed hull.
Hopefully we will find out what happened.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:50   #60
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Re: Cat sinks off Sunshine Coast QLD.

This story makes me think that having a high-flow emergency gasoline-powered pump is not a bad idea after all. Another is an emergency water-proof battery bank. Will add that to my list
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