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Old 06-11-2006, 05:48   #16
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Unsinkable doesn't mean that it doesn't fill with water.

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Old 06-11-2006, 05:52   #17
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This guy clearly has blinders on......I dont care were you are or what you choose to sail in...the simple truth is that idiots come in all shapes and sizes just like boats....He just seems to have a hang up about cats {I guess it must have been that hobie cat incident dented his ego....and now he takes it out on the vessel not the operator....} People like this should keep their mouth shut.....take some lessons gain some experience, then what you say might be worthy of our opinion and consideration...
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:00   #18
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Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:15   #19
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Originally Posted by defjef
I think one point which seems to be valid concerns the fact that there are few slips and berthing option for cats... meaning most are anchored and getting them repaired may be more expensive requiring special facilities.

Anchored does not necessarily mean more vulnerable, but they do have more windage than a monohull of similar length and perhaps anchoring may represent a greater hazard in a blow.

Getting a vessel repaired at a special facility may mean towing or some other special means for haul out at a local yard ... of it can accommodate the cat.

I don't even know how these would be hauled except perhaps on a rail system which I don't see many of in NE for example.

These issues may mean larger claims for "similar" losses compared with monohulls.

The facts should speak for themselves. Who has the facts?

Jef
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I made some observations during our recent storm through the NE. My cat was in a mooring field with a dozen monos. During the day of 50-60 kt winds, I went to check on the boat (from land!) and the monos were sailing back and forth on their bridles sawing away at them. Even the ones with double bridles. My boat was riding steady bow to the wind, which I attribute to the bridles going to each hull forming a large angle. Three boats broke loose and went ashore due to chafing through their bridles. Also, I have seen an additional 5 boats pulled off the shore in this area with broken bridles still attached to their cleats. Some of these had good chafe protection that simply gave up the ghost after 48 hours of storm conditions.

I think I can extrapolate the mooring observations to what would happen at anchor, since my boat rides steady at anchor also. In these types of conditions, maybe windage is less of a concern than sailing back and forth. It seems that the ground tackle could be matched to the windage easier than setting up a system to keep from hunting around.

Yes, their are fewer slips available, but I can't imagine going through the process of researching boats and purchasing one only to be caught by surprise that its beam exceeds 16'! Haulout facilities are fewer, but almost every geographical area on the east coast has a marina that can haul with a travelift. And these facilities are growing as marinas widen their wells/lifts to accommodate increasing numbers of cats and wider powerboats.

One thing the author got wrong was his story about the hurricane flipping a cat and his comment that no one was around to see it. Both statements are false. The cat was a Manta 40 named "Route 66" and it was picked up by a tornado spawned after the hurricane had passed and tossed ontop of a Grady White. The boat rode out the hurricane just fine until then. This was witnessed by an owner of a Lagoon who lived in a house on the canal with the Manta right outside his window. The tornado also picked up a couple of large powerboats and tossed them around. I will go out on a limb and suggest that it was only coincidental (fate? provence?) that a mono wasn't hit.

Or maybe immunity from tornados is another advantage of monos?

Mark
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:32   #20
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People hate change. Change is what's happening in the sailing industry. Catamaran sales are climbing as a percentage of sailing boats sold and the mono guys are left wondering if they're stuck with yesterday's technology. What we're reading in this article is probably a case of "Monohull Owner's Insecurity". I'll coin this phrase as "MOI".

When MOI is combined with "chaotic Gotterdammerung" we have a French phrase which roughly translates ..... "I should have bought a catamaran."

Rick in Florida
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:38   #21
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Mudnut can buy his catamaran now

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Old 06-11-2006, 06:41   #22
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Oh how much fun it would be to dissect this self confessed biased article paragraph by paragraph. Still accepting his proficient use of the English language, I will assume the author is of at least average intelligence and some of what he says may have some basis in fact.

I can believe that dismasting might be higher on cats because, in a blow, a monohullís heeling action dumps wind and forgives the inattentive sailor. A cat does not heel, at least heels very little and all that excess sail exerts forces that have to go somewhere. The load on the rigging could be too high very quickly. A cat sailor has to be just that much more attentive in high winds. The overturn he sites might have been avoided if the crew had quickly let go the sheet lines, something the author would have learned on a Hobie.

Leaving out the poor seamanship of other cases (I mean, idiots running onto charted reefs has nothing to do with boat type) the only other claim is that cats are more prone to lightning strikes. Really? I would think a well grounded, keel stepped, mono would be a better lightning rod.

High cost to repair? Yeah that makes sense. They cost more to build, more to buy, etc.

Limited dockage or haul out? True, the marine support industry has not kept pace with a shift in the increase of catamarans as a percentage of the market. I am in a marina and there are two yards that can haul me within 50 nm.

This guy is actually in a position to get some true empirical data, and all he gives is anecdotal opinion. Too bad.
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:41   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj

Or maybe immunity from tornados is another advantage of monos?

Mark
Mark,

I don't think so. A few years ago I was watching a little waterspout, reminded me of tumbleweed, in Georgetown. It was so small I thought it was nothing. An anchored Gozzard 44 was in its path. When it got to the Gozzard, the Gozzard was knocked down! I couldn't believe that little thing had so much power. Little wee bit of whirling water and it knocked down this heavy boat. Having seen the power of this little thing makes me worry a lot more when I see the big ones on the horizon now.
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:03   #24
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I don't have a prejudice one way or the other mono vs cat. Each design has advantages and some disadvantages. But clearly many have hull type chauvinism.

Like everything in life our choices involve compromises and setting priorites.

A well found vessel skippered by a competant crew who is prudent should be the starting point. No?

Jef
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:39   #25
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Jef,

You're right they're all sailboats. The good thing about these discussions is that there's usually a few gems of knowledge that you can glean from these posts. What surprised me on these big cats is the noise they make under sail in moderate seas. My experience was in a Leopard and I don't know if it was typical but it made sailing seem very "busy" mainly from the two hulls going whomp whomp all the time. A very different experience from a mono where she heels and leans into a wave and goes whoosh. It wasn't so much the ride but rather the noise was so foreign to me.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:38   #26
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How fast were you going in the Leopard?

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Old 06-11-2006, 08:51   #27
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About 6 or 7 knots. Nothing extreme. We were out fishing in Exuma Sound. Excellent platform for landing and cleaning fish. Amazing party boat.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:29   #28
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My cockpit is a 8 1/2' x 6' uninterupted rectangle (smile).... The only frustration so far is that I can't seem to find a place to hang my Hammock.

But..I'm working on it....

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Old 06-11-2006, 11:35   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505

The article that started this thread had more to do with crew competence than with multihull issues.
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While in the Caribbean the last two years, I enjoyed reading Caribbean Compass, and especially enjoyed that author's column. Although he does provide some useful truth at times, I must correct Rick and say that THE ARTICLE THAT STARTED THIS THREAD HAD MORE TO DO WITH ENTERTAINING READERS OF THE CARIBBEAN COMPASS THAN ANYTHING ELSE. Please feel entertained more than you feel educated.

That's my opinion, anyway.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:38   #30
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I stand corrected...

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