Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2016, 14:35   #61
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,082
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Recently a fair number of cats have sunk.
Name three in each hemisphere,
Quote:
The only cats that are unsinkable are very sportive ones
, This is dependant on your definition of sportive, but overall pretty much incorrect. EG Leopards are pretty much unsinkable, and without wishing to in any way offend any leopard owners, they would not necessarily be universally regarded as sportive. . the ones made whose building material is less dense than sea water. That is not the case with the vast majority of cruising cats.

Quote:
Saying all this choosing a cat or a monohull based on this sort of criteria seems absurd to me
Yep, - its like people with Landcruisers and etc never leaving the Tarmac. all a bit pointless

Quote:
even if I considered desirable that cats and monohulls alike have a waterproof bulkhead separating the rudder area from the rest of the boat.
absolutely agree, any sensible design should have forward crash bulkheads and aft seperate rudder compartments if the rudder is in board of the hull.
__________________

__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 14:39   #62
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,082
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Some years ago on a transat race, huge 60ft racing trimarans, very beamy and with a huge stability, were capsized by big winds (Gusts over 70K). At least one of them without any sail on the mast, just by the force of the wind on the big mast.
And your point is? The similarity between a Gemini and an ORMA 60 is minscule, the similarity between a gemini and a orma 60 being raced is infinitesimally small.
__________________

__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 14:41   #63
Registered User
 
lindabarzini's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 140
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnow2011 View Post
Someone told me 2 months ago they were going to cruise the caribean with a gemini.
I told them there is a lot of open water down there, and the chances of being in a situation where the boat is no good would be high. They called me an idiot, and told me to bugger off. I hate to be this right.
This could have just as easily happened in the Chesapeake Bay. Taking on water is not necessarily a function of depth of water.

This is a pretty smug comment when it has been clearly demonstrated the issue was not related to conditions.

You sound like one of those overly-opinionated know-it-alls who claim to know what exactly is a "blue water" boat. I think it has been clearly demonstrated that its less the boat and more the knowledge and expertise of the sailors.
__________________
lindabarzini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 14:44   #64
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,452
Images: 69
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Not sinking is a psychological reassurance I feel for many folk.. same as life rafts...
Folk surviving for long on either is far from the norm..
Don't know why there's so much Hoo Haa about it all.. mono.. cat.. its dead.
The boat is dead yes, most likely. The crew, not such a certainty. Some cat's inverted can make a decent liferaft. Better IMO than the inflatable variety. And others won't.

With EPIRBS you'd hope not to need to survive on either long-term.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 14:51   #65
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

True.. but EPIRB's it seems often do not do the job.. 2014 saw 5 boats and 17 people disappear within 3 days of the Azores.. okay none were cats and yes... some guys survived for 5mths allegedly when they capsized on the way to Chile and drifted (luckily) back to NZ..
But.. once again the exception..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 14:52   #66
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 256
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post

Anyway, this boat didn't capsize due to wind. One hull flooded due to some kind of breach. That can happen to just about any boat.
Good point.

Paul
__________________
Paul J. Nolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 20:35   #67
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 81
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

I registered today due to this thread after months of lurking so first of all, thanks for the wealth of knowledge that the CF members share freely.

Secondly I had been thinking that Geminis were the right size (and yes budget) for my wife and I to retire on for a year or two in the Caribbean. This thread has highlighted the differences in construction to a point that I wouldn't want to risk a breach or failed pass through on a boat that isnt built to be buoyant. Are the Gemini MC models built the same as the 3000s in this regard?

Again thank you to all who contribute their experience, knowledge and opinions on this forum.
__________________
Nahbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 20:48   #68
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,871
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahbrown View Post
I registered today due to this thread after months of lurking so first of all, thanks for the wealth of knowledge that the CF members share freely.

Secondly I had been thinking that Geminis were the right size (and yes budget) for my wife and I to retire on for a year or two in the Caribbean. This thread has highlighted the differences in construction to a point that I wouldn't want to risk a breach or failed pass through on a boat that isnt built to be buoyant. Are the Gemini MC models built the same as the 3000s in this regard?

Again thank you to all who contribute their experience, knowledge and opinions on this forum.
Gemini's are not sold as unsinkable (as are 99% of bluewater monohulls).

They do have crash compartments but the designer/builder has stated they are intended to slow any sinking not make the boat unsinkable (aka: in this scenario there is a hull a float where a mono would be on the bottom).

Some owners have filled these with foam making it essentially unsinkable. There is debate if this is a good idea or not.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2016, 21:03   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 81
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Valhalla 360, I thought that a commom characteristic of Catamarans was thier inherent buoyancy. Obviously I was mistaken and all cats are not created as such.

Livability, stability and safety are the reasons I had focused on catamarans. Size and price led me to look at Geminis. I am still in the learning phase and cant buy for another 20 months anyway. So much more to learn...
__________________
Nahbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 02:34   #70
Sos
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Boat: Woods Flica catamaran
Posts: 160
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

I wouldn't be put off by whether or not it is unsinkable. Most boats aren't!.
If you like the Gemini and it suits your purpose then consider replacing all the through hulls and pipes etc. Lot cheaper than compromising on which boat.
__________________
Sos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 02:36   #71
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,757
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomD View Post
Doubtless people are too polite here. But lead mines do get bashed in the right circles. Bad things can happen with any boat. At least with lead mines they are less likely constitute a hazard to shipping.
Unfortunately most monohulls that are abandoned are not because they are sinking but because people are afraid they can capsize (many even before the boat has been rolled) or have a broken rudder or mast. Most of those boats don't sink and many are known to be washed ashore on distant shores.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 02:39   #72
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,757
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
And your point is? The similarity between a Gemini and an ORMA 60 is minscule, the similarity between a gemini and a orma 60 being raced is infinitesimally small.
Yes you are right, a Orma 60 has a hugely bigger stability. The Orma 60 were not racing at that point, just trying to survive a big storm without any sails on the mast. Yes they have masts that have proportionally more area than a typical cruising multihull but even so not a big area.

Just pointing out that given the right wind (that has to be a huge one) the wind pressure on the mast alone can capsize a multihull. I know of cruising cats that had been capsized at anchor and certainly you have knowledge about that too.
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 02:53   #73
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 1,094
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Yes you are right, a Orma 60 has a hugely bigger stability. The Orma 60 were not racing at that point, just trying to survive a big storm without any sails on the mast. Yes they have masts that have proportionally more area than a typical cruising multihull but even so not a big area.

Just pointing out that given the right wind (that has to be a huge one) the wind pressure on the mast alone can capsize a multihull. I know of cruising cats that had been capsized at anchor and certainly you have knowledge about that too.
it is not mast. it is bridgedeck & hulls catching the wind.
__________________
arsenelupiga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 02:57   #74
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,452
Images: 69
Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Yes you are right, a Orma 60 has a hugely bigger stability. .

Relative to the area of the bare mast, and the boat's displacement, I don't think so.


Anyway, as usual all that is irrelevant. The boat under discussion capsized because a hull flooded, not due to wind.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"


John McEnroe
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 05:40   #75
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,871
Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Tony Smith said the Geminis were designed and built as coastal cruisers not bluewater boats, though this may have changed with the 105. The Gemini is a great boat, but for bluewater sailing there are many more cats that are much more suited.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
He did pursue and obtain the top EU standard for Ocean going pleasure boats. There were a couple of minor changes (door sill was raised a few inches for example).

Personally wouldn't want to do an ocean crossing in any 34' boat but assuming everything was checked out ahead of time, I wouldn't worry about the boat if I had to take a Gemini. You are likely to give out long before the boat does.
__________________

__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gulf stream

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cat Capsized off Ocean City Hyprdrv Multihull Sailboats 6 08-08-2013 14:50
Crossing gulf stream Red44 Atlantic & the Caribbean 7 26-06-2008 19:31
C.G. Rescue Capsized Cat off N. Carolina camaraderie Cruising News & Events 20 11-06-2008 17:15
Gulf Stream Counter Current / Northwest Cuba ? alaskadog Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 22-08-2005 17:51
Gulf Stream Crossing GordMay Atlantic & the Caribbean 0 17-04-2003 21:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.