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Old 04-02-2016, 06:17   #46
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Polux -
What statistic are you referring to? Your post is about catamarans sinking, and I didn't say a word about that.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:25   #47
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
Polux -
What statistic are you referring to? Your post is about catamarans sinking, and I didn't say a word about that.
I am talking about this claim that you certainly are basing on some sort of statistical facts:
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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
The chances of a well designed, well sailed cruising multihull capsizing are about the same as the chances of a well designed, well sailed cruising monohull sinking.
..
You referred multihulls and as the vast majority of multihulls around are cats, trimarans are pretty much meaningless in what regards global statistics, regarding what you said referring all multihulls.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:40   #48
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pirate Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I am talking about this claim that you certainly are basing on some sort of statistical facts:

You referred multihulls and as the vast majority of multihulls around are cats, trimarans are pretty much meaningless in what regards global statistics, regarding what you said referring all multihulls.
Common sense and Statistics have little in common..
FS is making a common sense statement.. no statistics required..
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:52   #49
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

This one has been floating upside down for almost a year:

Missing Sunsail yacht found after a year Yachting Monthly
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:15   #50
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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Originally Posted by wunderluster View Post
I don't understand why the CG wasn't informed when this happened. Notification would have saved a lot of resources and speculation.
My understanding is that the CG was notified as there was a secuite message being broadcast from sector Key West and Miami early Monday morning about an inverted catamaran 20 miles off of Key Largo. Later in the day a boat 20 miles off of Bimini reported an inverted catamaran but for some reason could not stop. About an hour later we heard the CG helicopter hailing a trawler yacht 20. Miles wnw of Bimini and asked them to investigate the catamaran. They seemed particularly interested in a name or registration number. Once they had that number they told the trawler that they no longer needed their service. At that point it did not seem to me to make sense that they would not want to investigate the interior of the hulls. Now that I have additional data it makes sense that they were simply trying to confirm their belief that this was the same catamaran that had been reported off of Key Largo and that they knew that everyone had been rescued from it. What thay didn't do was tell the vessel on scene and those listening that this was the same cat that had been reported earlier and that everyone aboard had been accounted for. It would have been nice if they had.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:18   #51
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pirate Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
This one has been floating upside down for almost a year:

Missing Sunsail yacht found after a year Yachting Monthly
Not sinking is a psychological reassurance I feel for many folk.. same as life rafts...
Folk surviving for long on either is far from the norm..
Don't know why there's so much Hoo Haa about it all.. mono.. cat.. its dead.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:33   #52
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

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Not sinking is a psychological reassurance I feel for many folk.. same as life rafts...
Folk surviving for long on either is far from the norm..
Don't know why there's so much Hoo Haa about it all.. mono.. cat.. its dead.
I guess I could see the psychological reassurance. I haven't been in either circumstance but floating around in the water, out of sight of land next to an overturned catamaran does somehow seem preferable for some reason that floating around in the water with nothing around and your boat on the ocean floor hundreds or thousands of feet below you.

Not that it will necessarily make a difference in the final outcome.
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:51   #53
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Really Polux - the only cats that are unsinkable are 'very sportive ones'! In your continuing effort to denigrate catamarans you focus on light weight construction and disregard sealed floatation chambers that can also create bouyancy. Is this Gemini, still afloat with a holed hull (try that in your monohull) a 'very sportive' cat? How about the inverted Sunsail, still afloat although inverted and at the mercy of the seas for over a year. Does Sunsail typically Charter very 'sportive' cats? Or are they typically Leopards and Lagoons?

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Old 04-02-2016, 08:12   #54
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Really Polux - the only cats that are unsinkable are 'very sportive ones'! In your continuing effort to denigrate catamarans you focus on light weight construction and disregard sealed floatation chambers that can also create bouyancy. Is this Gemini, still afloat with a holed hull (try that in your monohull) a 'very sportive' cat? How about the inverted Sunsail, still afloat although inverted and at the mercy of the seas for over a year. Does Sunsail typically Charter very 'sportive' cats? Or are they typically Leopards and Lagoons?

Brad
There you go with that story about denigrating catamarans

A well known fact is that several cats have sunk. Never said that the percentage of cats that sunk is the same as monohulls. There are also inverted monohulls that did not sunk and monohulls with chambers to create bouncy.

What as this to do with denigrate cats? Every time one does not agree with a statement regarding a comparison between cats and monohulls (like for instance that the number of monohulls that sank is the same as the one as multihulls that capsize), is denigrating cats
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:19   #55
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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Originally Posted by sailnow2011 View Post
Someone told me 2 months ago they were going to cruise the caribean with a gemini.
I told them there is a lot of open water down there, and the chances of being in a situation where the boat is no good would be high. They called me an idiot, and told me to bugger off. I hate to be this right.

From what we know, the offshore capability of the boat had ZERO to do with the issue. Pick the biggest baddes bluewater mono and break off a thru hull fitting and you can expect to wind up on the bottom.

As far as Tony Smith's comment, that is often used as a dig but is taken out of context. He crossed the north atlantic at the wrong time of the year and experienced bad conditions. If you read the full story, he talks about how well it handled the conditions and with the enclosure for the cockpit how they were able to hang out in t-shirts rather than weather gear">foul weather gear.
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:08   #56
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Re: Cat capsized in the gulf stream.

Tony Smith said the Geminis were designed and built as coastal cruisers not bluewater boats, though this may have changed with the 105. The Gemini is a great boat, but for bluewater sailing there are many more cats that are much more suited.


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Old 04-02-2016, 12:26   #57
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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Some years ago on a transat race, huge 60ft racing trimarans, very beamy and with a huge stability, were capsized by big winds (Gusts over 70K). At least one of them without any sail on the mast, just by the force of the wind on the big mast.
This is a scary scenario. No one intends to be in bad weather, but it happens.
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Old 04-02-2016, 13:13   #58
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Can you explain where did you get to that statistic?

Recently a fair number of cats have sunk. The only cats that are unsinkable are very sportive ones, the ones made whose building material is less dense than sea water. That is not the case with the vast majority of cruising cats.
And there you go with the garbage again...
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Old 04-02-2016, 13:15   #59
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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This is a scary scenario. No one intends to be in bad weather, but it happens.
The big racing tri's generally have a very large "sail" area in their wingmasts. They really don't have much in common with boats people cruise on.
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Old 04-02-2016, 14:35   #60
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Re: Cat capcized in the gulf stream.

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Really? Can you show me an example of where a "multihuller" has gone into the monohull sailboat forum and called their boats "sinkers"?

Certainly you get responses to the usual "Cats always flip" comments on the multihull forum, but I don't think there are many examples of the reverse going on. (I could be wrong, t.
Doubtless people are too polite here. But lead mines do get bashed in the right circles. Bad things can happen with any boat. At least with lead mines they are less likely constitute a hazard to shipping.
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