Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2015, 00:09   #91
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,080
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS View Post
Well the Corsair 3600 does appear to look quite a 'schmick' Cat with quite a few bells and whistles but from what I've gleaned from the members herein and the various links and looking at the below water pics even my limited Cat insight would suggest it wouldn't take much 'weather' to turn it into a major slammer.
And therein is my point. You can make purchase decisions based on what internet people say, or you can get professional assistance - your call.
__________________

__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 00:35   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Alias in just a few posts you seem to have got offside with several of the most experienced multihullers on this site.

keep up the good work

Well downunder, thank you for your information as I did came to this forum for information. (No malice intended)

Appears according to your report I have caused some bridge deck slamming!

I am also a member of a couple of other forums which has members who like to quantify their importance against other members and likewise a yacht club with a 'Royal' at the start of its title which some members feels gives them more importance and makes them more knowledgeable.

'Experts' have always been everywhere.

What I find interesting is that there is always another level to all of this when members (of both the forums and Club) give one information in private or via private msgs.

So downunder why am I not surprised it wouldn't be any different herein.

I'll survive, Randians have a tendency to do that and I've learnt that one does not lose friends but finds out who ones friends are.

So once again downunder thank you for taking the time.



ps, still trying to work out whether your post was on the money, satire or just you venting sarcasm!
__________________

__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 00:54   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS
Well the Corsair 3600 does appear to look quite a 'schmick' Cat with quite a few bells and whistles but from what I've gleaned from the members herein and the various links and looking at the below water pics even my limited Cat insight would suggest it wouldn't take much 'weather' to turn it into a major slammer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
And therein is my point. You can make purchase decisions based on what internet people say, or you can get professional assistance - your call.
Yep Factor, my call and as you also told me earlier ...........'professional assistance' can also come with its own bias and vested interest as does members advice and information.

I came here for information which has been forthcoming in various degrees from various quarters for me to digest and maybe act upon.

For that I am grateful.

And grasshopper is still learning!

__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 06:50   #94
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS View Post
ps, still trying to work out whether your post was on the money, satire or just you venting sarcasm!
It was on the money. I honestly can't see what you are trying to accomplish here.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 10:50   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Land locked Leics UK
Posts: 249
Images: 1
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Some great posts here for another newbie like me. I must admit to having read the post given by richinboca and found it very informative without blinding me in science.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Heath68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 14:57   #96
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS
ps, still trying to work out whether your post was on the money, satire or just you venting sarcasm!



Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
It was on the money. I honestly can't see what you are trying to accomplish here.

Mark
Well Mark as I see it, I came here with questions to ask.

Responses were forthcoming.

I questioned the integrity/worth of some responses.

44 got his nose out of joint and deemed those responses (of mine) were criticizing the responses.

I saw it otherwise and didn't turn the other cheek.

And as D&D commented ..... 'this thread is now becoming as much (if not more) entertaining as it is informing?!?'

And here we are on the 5th day of the thread with 3700 odd hits which could mean D&D having a valid point.

Anyways folks, from my perspective its been informative and educational in more ways than one.

And I further suggest folks that there is more going on in the world at the moment to loose sleep over and get ones nose out of joint than this thread.

__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 15:50   #97
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS View Post
And here we are on the 5th day of the thread with 3700 odd hits which could mean D&D having a valid point.
No, I think it means that bridge deck clearance is recognized by knowledgeable cat sailors - and those becoming knowledgeable - as one of the most influential parameters of cat design.

Your next topic should perhaps be sail area/displacement....

Skip the weight topic. Everybody knows about this already and it's built in to the SA/D topic. SA should just be the upwind SA. Any cat can fly acres of sail off the wind.

Then tackle VMG upwind. But to do this you'll have to actually sail the candidates.

As a finale, tackle VMG downwind. Here the difference between gybing downwind vs DDW is determined mostly by displacement. Just about all cruising cats won't make money gybing ala beachcat. Those that can suffer from "not really a cruiser" disease, unless the cost goes way up. You can only have two of three >> performance, comfort, low cost. Pick yer poison.

2 Hulls Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 16:09   #98
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS
And here we are on the 5th day of the thread with 3700 odd hits which could mean D&D having a valid point.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
No, I think it means that bridge deck clearance is recognized by knowledgeable cat sailors - and those becoming knowledgeable - as one of the most influential parameters of cat design.

Your next topic should perhaps be sail area/displacement....

Skip the weight topic. Everybody knows about this already and it's built in to the SA/D topic. SA should just be the upwind SA. Any cat can fly acres of sail off the wind.

Then tackle VMG upwind. But to do this you'll have to actually sail the candidates.

As a finale, tackle VMG downwind. Here the difference between gybing downwind vs DDW is determined mostly by displacement. Just about all cruising cats won't make money gybing ala beachcat. Those that can suffer from "not really a cruiser" disease, unless the cost goes way up. You can only have two of three >> performance, comfort, low cost. Pick yer poison.

2 Hulls Dave
Ok Dave.......... your Catana has which two and why?
__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 16:14   #99
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 506
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post


Then tackle VMG upwind. But to do this you'll have to actually sail the candidates.
No , no. There is now heaps of race and rally data out there for you to peruse at your leasure regarding performance. No need to get wet cold and sick.
__________________
Seaslug Caravan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 16:18   #100
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
No , no. There is now heaps of race and rally data out there for you to peruse at your leasure regarding performance. No need to get wet cold and sick.

Any links please?
__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 16:20   #101
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
No , no. There is now heaps of race and rally data out there for you to peruse at your leasure regarding performance. No need to get wet cold and sick.
But race results have a single, dependent variable that far overrides boat variable >> skipper and crew performance.

2 Hulls Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 16:49   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS View Post
Ok Dave.......... your Catana has which two and why?
Comfort and performance.

I will send you a PM to elaborate. I do not wish to draw undue attention to my personal choices.

2 Hulls Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 17:43   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AUSTRALIA
Boat: ADAMS BLUE WATER 30
Posts: 74
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Comfort and performance.

I will send you a PM to elaborate. I do not wish to draw undue attention to my personal choices.

2 Hulls Dave
Thanks for your comments/info in your PM

Googled a couple of Catana 471's, look nice, prob for me is they are way out of my intended spend.

But back to topic..... do those under bridge deck protrusions become a issue of slamming?

Curious what are the crew requirements for comfortable handling of your Cat?

Catana 471





__________________
ALIAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 18:36   #104
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIAS View Post
But back to topic..... do those under bridge deck protrusions become a issue of slamming?

Curious what are the crew requirements for comfortable handling of your Cat?

Catana 471
Those are the "knuckles" I described earlier in this thread that are quite common to increase hull interior volume. They have to be vulnerable to slamming. Whether this is significant is another matter, the degree of which we may never know. We'd have to compare to the same hulls without the knuckles, which do not exist.

(FYI the center protrusion is a line conduit for the main halyard, topping lift, and reefing lines. After running through this conduit (and not on the deck) they re-appear in the cockpit near the electric winch. All mainsail handling is done there.)

My boat has slammed. All cats do. Once on a boisterous passage while in my bunk there was an "explosion" that rattled my brains. I sprung up, stark nekkid, and ran out into the cockpit, expecting the mast to fall any second. The crew on watch, sitting at the stdb helm (one of those "deadly" outboard helms ) reading a book with a headlamp, looked at me like I was nuts. He hadn't heard a thing. Being in the hulls of a cat going fast is like being on the inside of a drum. Whether it's slamming or wave slap, it's noisy. Slower boats suffer this less. No cats at anchor slam. If you're not going to do passage making, you don't need to worry about bridgedeck clearance. On this subject, do not ignore excessive bridgedeck length. This is easy to spot by looking for short bows.

As for crew requirements, for routine cruising, the Admiral and I do just fine. We enjoy tacking upwind. We also enjoy a comfy run under spinnaker. We are small people and we're not particularly young. Our combined weight is about 245 pounds (~111kg). Any properly equipped boat of similar size should be similar - with practice. Right size winches. We have one electric winch that handles the main. Manual primaries. With manual primaries you learn to tack efficiently. Our genny is 140%. 60m2. It's a beast if you let it get the upper hand. When we race we get at least three additional deck apes. Two in a pinch....

I'd be wary of the boats with configurations that claim, "all lines lead to the helm for easy single handing." Who really needs that? That produces a crowded space that the crew can't work in. Imagine flying elbows in a tack. Although I rarely do it, single handing any cat with an auto pilot and good hardware is doable. Most of the time on passage, all cruising boats are no-handed. The time you really need extra hands is arriving and leaving an anchorage or a dock and landing fish. We enjoy making our guests work at sailing the boat. It's not all rum and mangoes. But they enjoy it. Watching three newbies tack the boat is a real hoot. They get it right after a try with each at the three stations - helm and each primary. This would be almost impossible with one of those "all lines lead..." boats. But not all people are sailors at heart and your mileage may be different.....

2 Hulls Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2015, 19:04   #105
D&D
Marine Service Provider
 
D&D's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Blue Mountains, Australia
Boat: now working Syd Harbour charters
Posts: 1,459
Re: Cat Bridge Deck Clearances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Those are the "knuckles" I described earlier in this thread that are quite common to increase hull interior volume. They have to be vulnerable to slamming. Whether this is significant is another matter, the degree of which we may never know. We'd have to compare to the same hulls without the knuckles, which do not exist.

(FYI the center protrusion is a line conduit for the main halyard, topping lift, and reefing lines. After running through this conduit (and not on the deck) they re-appear in the cockpit near the electric winch. All mainsail handling is done there.)

My boat has slammed. All cats do. Once on a boisterous passage while in my bunk there was an "explosion" that rattled my brains. I sprung up, stark nekkid, and ran out into the cockpit, expecting the mast to fall any second. The crew on watch, sitting at the stdb helm (one of those "deadly" outboard helms ) reading a book with a headlamp, looked at me like I was nuts. He hadn't heard a thing. Being in the hulls of a cat going fast is like being on the inside of a drum. Whether it's slamming or wave slap, it's noisy. Slower boats suffer this less. No cats at anchor slam. If you're not going to do passage making, you don't need to worry about bridgedeck clearance. On this subject, do not ignore excessive bridgedeck length. This is easy to spot by looking for short bows.

As for crew requirements, for routine cruising, the Admiral and I do just fine. We enjoy tacking upwind. We also enjoy a comfy run under spinnaker. We are small people and we're not particularly young. Our combined weight is about 245 pounds (~111kg). Any properly equipped boat of similar size should be similar - with practice. Right size winches. We have one electric winch that handles the main. Manual primaries. With manual primaries you learn to tack efficiently. Our genny is 140%. 60m2. It's a beast if you let it get the upper hand. When we race we get at least three additional deck apes. Two in a pinch....

I'd be wary of the boats with configurations that claim, "all lines lead to the helm for easy single handing." Who really needs that? That produces a crowded space that the crew can't work in. Imagine flying elbows in a tack. Although I rarely do it, single handing any cat with an auto pilot and good hardware is doable. Most of the time on passage, all cruising boats are no-handed. The time you really need extra hands is arriving and leaving an anchorage or a dock and landing fish. We enjoy making our guests work at sailing the boat. It's not all rum and mangoes. But they enjoy it. Watching three newbies tack the boat is a real hoot. They get it right after a try with each at the three stations - helm and each primary. This would be almost impossible with one of those "all lines lead..." boats. But not all people are sailors at heart and your mileage may be different.....

2 Hulls Dave
Great post...thanks Dave!

We'll make a quick comment on the "all lines lead..." issue and then withdraw back toward the thread topic. Ours is probably one of those "all lines lead..." vessels, but the presence of the flybridge eliminates (in our view anyway) the crowded space and flying elbows syndromes. The flybridge raises many issues of its own, of course, and there are many detractors, as well as many who love it; we (and everyone we know with a flybridge!) are firmly in the 'lovers' category.

Back to bridge deck clearance now...
__________________

__________________
D&D is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deck

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big River Bridge Clearances cruiserbill Navigation 1 05-07-2013 08:12
Gulf ICW Bridge Clearances F51 Navigation 6 11-07-2011 20:07
Bridge Clearance of 'Seven Mile Bridge' (South of Boot Key) ? Almost Heaven Navigation 4 18-11-2010 15:20
What's Your Cat Bridge Deck Clearance? Atlantic42 Multihull Sailboats 10 08-07-2009 21:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.