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Old 24-10-2014, 18:42   #16
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

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<snip>

Still a ways from getting this out of my system, but this kind of advise is really appreciated.
In reading the majority of posts here, and someone saying Boat + Schedule = Disaster (OK not disaster but difficulty) - You might have to consider if this boat is just too far away.

If you buy this boat sight unseen or sight seen, you may be faced with a boat that needs a fair amount of work before it will even cross the Pacific. Another time/$$ problem.

Maybe keep searching for something closer to home. Anywhere from NZ to Japan to South East Asia would be a better prospect in terms of your time block constraints.

If this really is "the boat" maybe ship it to Oz or at least SEA. Atoll (one of our members) is currently delivering a boat from Singapore to Bangkok after it was shipped to Singapore.

You have also researched the importation rules for Australia as well, right? The way it is written you pay tax there on the boat price + the cost of delivery, even if you sail it yourself. So all the provisionsing, stores and so on to deliver from the US to Oz will be theorteically taxable.

There are other threads specific to this and you might want to read up on it.
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Old 25-10-2014, 04:03   #17
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

wow - what great responses, can't thank you all enough.

The take away I am getting from all this is that the route and times are do-able, subject to the vagaries of wind and Panama Canal bureaucracy, but is really a delivery and not a cruise. That all sounds within the bounds so far, I guess the whole thing is very quick from a cruise perspective but I was focusing on the second phase more to enjoy the locations.

Generous Cross sailors: thanks for taking pity on me... erm have never sailed on one, so probably not really in a position to make any judgments, and you would probably sail rings around me in a bathtub with a decent rig

Ex Calif's response probably leads me to my other two major gateways in the project.. the boat and myself. Deal with the boat first.

She is probably not "the" boat, but the combination of the boat, and potential adventure bringing her back are pretty alluring right now. For those interested you can find her here:
1996 Crowther Buccaneer 40 sailboat for sale in Alabama

Obviously the price is a pretty big lure and this probably sounds like the beginning of many a story with a bad ending for the guy in my shoes, but bear with me. I have nothing to go on yet than the word of the seller (survey is planned, just not committed yet). The boat has been on the hard for at least 3 years. I have allowed for replacing the rigging and Mainsail some internal work and motor survey/maintenance plus a pretty extensive list of safety and comms gear to get her ready. Any picked up structural or mechanical issues will probably end the idea straight away.

If I go ahead with this I would keep the yacht where is until Feb 2016. In that time I would visit for a week or 2 and do some minor work myself and line up local contractors for the majority of it.

All up I am expecting the cost to be nearer $50K than $24. I guess I am asking how long is a piece of string but does this sound within reason? The world will not end if I go over the budget, but I would like it to be a reasonable expectation.

I have factored in import duty as well, but missed the cost of delivery requirement - thanks Ex-calif. will research this a bit more.

I realize I have now moved from "schedule" to cheap boat on other side of the world and may have many of you groaning or eye rolling or both. Plenty of warning signs I know, but i guess I am here trying to get a feeling of the risk I am potentially taking and then weigh up how much I am willing to carry.

Your answers on the passage time were really useful in gauging this, so thanks again.
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Old 25-10-2014, 06:00   #18
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

If you did all the work yourself and were very careful, I doubt that you'd make the +us$25k budget. If you have contractors do the work, then no way.
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Old 25-10-2014, 19:47   #19
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

I though a copy of my estimation might make this conversation more constructive.

FWIW to move the project forward the yacht has to be in reasonable condition as is. My main allowance for contractors is to drop the mast and replace the rigging. It would also make sense to get and mast wiring redone at that point and mount and aerials etc. Other than that I am allowing to do internal wiring and instrument mounting myself and give here a general tidy and up make it more comfortable.

If anyone has time would love your thoughts on the attached spreadsheet. Occurs to me this part of the discussion could fit into "Cheap multi's and projects thread" - can a mod advise if I should move it??

Attached is my calc sheet - if anyone has time and inclination appreciate a quick eyeballing to tell me which massive holes I have missed!

Thanks again all.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Tri Costs Estimate Sheet.xls (18.5 KB, 48 views)
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Old 25-10-2014, 20:24   #20
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Hi Sprucey,

we did a similar trip from St Martin Caribbean to Bundaberg in 2011 that took about 4.5 months from memory. It too was really a delivery trip, probably for the same reasons as you. I haven't time for much of a response now but my first comments are.

Unless you know the boat and it has been prepared accordingly you can spend ages getting ready. We spent about 4 months in St Martin whereas I allowed 6 weeks. There are always so many things to sort out and you don't want to be crossing the worlds largest ocean unprepared. That means new rigging if >10 years old, windvane self steering or multiple backups if electronic, good or new sails, Note: give a lot of thought to downwind rig setup. There is a long long way to go with the wind right aft. We started off with no spinnaker pole but after crossing the Carribean to Panama waited 4 weeks for a pole to be delivered to Panama which delayed us significantly. Communications (sailmail etc) safety gear, spare parts etc etc etc.

We had some luck and good trade winds in 2011 and did the Panama - Galapagos in 6 days and Galapagos to Marquesas in 16 days. I have heard of people doing 21 days and 10 weeks respectively for the same passages. They were not in a hurry and had slowish boats. We have a Dufour 50 which sailed very well such as 6 consecutive 200 mile days from Galapagos to Fatu Hiva. Don't rely on good speeds though. You can be becalmed for days especially from Panama to where the proper trades start well south of Galapagos, say 10 degrees south.

One of my regrets is not allowing enough time to do the passage properly. It felt like all we were doing was sailing, formalities, stocking up and recovering from the last passage before we had to take off again. The lack of time was mainly due to preparation and unexpected problems. We almost missed the season as it was June before we left Panama.

If you don't have the experience consider getting a delivery captain aboard for the passages. They will be better able to assess the boat and make the delivery far less stressful. I met a couple of boats that did this and the price was quite reasonable.

If you want more details on the trip let me know.

regards

Andrew
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Old 25-10-2014, 22:24   #21
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

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Originally Posted by Sprucey View Post

Attached is my calc sheet - if anyone has time and inclination appreciate a quick eyeballing to tell me which massive holes I have missed!

Thanks again all.
- I see entries for AIS antenna and splitter but no AIS transmitter/transceiver?
- For items sourced in Alabama (including the boat) you need to consider Alabama sales tax - 4% minimum and higher depending on local sales taxes (county)
- Didn't see numbers for boat provisionsing (USD$500/mo X 2 months sailing?) = USD$1,000
- It looks like you plan to hump a lot of gear from Auz to Alabama - sails, esky, solar panels, satphone, HF radio, wet weather gear, lighting - Airline baggage overweight/shipping cost $$$?
- I think many of your estimations are optimistic - just opinion
- I would add a 10% "fudge" factor for murphy

All in all I would add about USD$6-8k to your estimate (including the AIS transceiver at about USD$1,000) pushing the project to about AUD$60k
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Old 25-10-2014, 22:31   #22
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Doesn't this mostly depend on the OP's skills and experience, assuming the boat is well-founded?
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Old 25-10-2014, 22:54   #23
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Ex-Calif - thanks for taking the time to have a look. I was realistically expecting to have missed a fair bit on that sheet so another $10K seems within my expectations.

Alabama sales tax - had not thought of that one. Thanks

AIS: I was basing my costs on the following system:
Cheapest AIS SYSTEM for Yachts

probably better to allow some extra though since I have not spoken to anyone who has used or endorsed it.

hmm nothing big to put a halt to this yet, but have to admit the risks are building up (and we haven't even got to me yet!) Will wait and see if anyone else has thoughts to add then venture into that area.

Thanks all.
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Old 26-10-2014, 01:33   #24
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

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Originally Posted by Sprucey View Post

AIS: I was basing my costs on the following system:
Cheapest AIS SYSTEM for Yachts

probably better to allow some extra though since I have not spoken to anyone who has used or endorsed it.
That looks like AIS receive only. Depending on the VHF you buy you can get the receive functionality built in for a few bucks more.

These day's however, if I were looking to add AIS I would go with the whole banana and be able to transmit position as well.
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Old 26-10-2014, 08:47   #25
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Some comments on your costs spreadsheet.
1. Pretty cheap surveyor at $6.50 a foot. See this rate card How much does a marine survey cost?
2. Pretty cheap engine and rig survey. Probably at least x2. for a decent job. Are there any good riggers near the boat?
3.Is that insurance while in the US only? Full insurance to cover the crossing will likely be more.
4. Standing rigging. Are you doing this work? If not, x2
5. Running rigging. I just paid almost that much to replace my Genoa sheets alone.
6. Drogue - you have $300. What are you going to tie it to? $450 worth of line? Do you need big snatch blocks to set it up?
7. Can't imagine why you would want 2 EPIRBs and 2 PLBs while on a budget.
8. Must be a good deal on the $200 laptop. Which one?
9. HF Radio. What about the costs of all the installation miscellaneous, coax, connectors, power wire, breaker, antenna, tuner?
10. Water Maker - is this one of those emergency in the ditch bag ones? If so, many on EBay need the membrane replaced -- upping the cost.
11. Autopilot - a $250 AP is not going to last long offshore on that boat.
12. Radar - no chart plotter or do you plan to use the laptop? What about installation costs, like power wiring etc.
13. Fridge - is this an ice box or an electric fridge?
14. Engine - change all the filters, oil, coolant and belts. It ain't free. Then load up on filters and oil for the crossing.
15. Solar panels - you can get better deals than what you listed for the panels alone. The costs of the mounting hardware, wiring and controller will be more than the panels in many cases.
16. Panama - about right for the Canal Authority part. Add in cruising permit and visas for 2 ($300). Then add in your stay in Shelter Bay Marina while waiting for your transit - a significant added cost. Really no good anchoring near Colon.
17. You skipping the Galapagos? $1000 to stop.
18. What about the flights, rental car etc for the trips back to work on the boat? I thought you mentioned 3 or 4 over a year. Maybe another 15 grand.
19. Tender - do you really want to head into SP with a tender that is falling a part? A new one is in the $1500 to $4000 range. No outboard?
20. Anchor/chain - this is not a place to skimp
21. Repair bucket - if the boat hasn't been used for years, then there will be a fair number of items that don't work or don't work for long. It all adds up -- quickly.

Not trying to throw water on your fire. You asked for the feedback. Its all doable, but costs are going to end up a bunch higher than you plan.
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Old 26-10-2014, 11:20   #26
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Can you disassemble that trimaran? If so, you might consider shipping it
to OZ in a 40ft container.
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Old 26-10-2014, 17:23   #27
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Paul L - no need to apologise, I am just very grateful (and a little surprised) that you folks are willing to take the time to look and give me your opinions/advise. As a first time user of the forums I am very impressed - granted, you are doing a pretty good job at dowsing the dream with some reality but at the end of the day that reality was what I was looking for.

Nimblemotors - I started to have a look at that option, but would require some serious butchering of the yacht to get her into a 40ft container (need to remove the winged sections of the main hull in addition to the arma supports). plus 2 containers at ~20K a container (local's off the cuff advice) didn't stack up.

My initial estimate was around $50K with an expected drift up to $60, and I suspect reality (based on comments) is probably $60K base with $10-$20K drift depending on how things go.... hmm plenty to think on atm. Might process this for a bit and let you know where I get to.

Many thanks again to all contributors.
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:28   #28
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Well, if the project starts to look daunting you can always look at options...

1991 Trimaran - Boats.com
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Old 27-10-2014, 17:53   #29
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Here is another one from the Cheap Mulit's thread - at least it is on the "correct" side of the canal but at $10k may be a bit of a disaster...

Quote:
Couple California Candidates from Latitude 38:
40-FT PIVER VICTRESS, 1981
Napa $10,000

Older Tri in need of new owner. Needs TLC but her bedroom tricks will amaze you (has five double bunks, aft cabin modified to spread over wings). Yanmar 3GM3F.
goo.gl/PTM3eH
(707) 653-5150
10/15/2014
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Old 27-10-2014, 18:15   #30
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Re: Caribbean and Pacific Crossing questions

Ha - Thanks Ex-Calif, I think you have a similar affliction to myself - scouring the internet for yachts! I suspect my wife would like me to find a help group for that.

Looking is fun, have seen a few ridiculous cheapies (a 4K 38 Piver in Aust) but something about the Buc 40 grabbed me.

But to be sure it has not stopped me looking at other options! This one is a sizeable step up from other options I was looking at. If I decide it is un-doable I may focus on smaller local options to get me back in the water.

There is a lovely Buc 35 on Trademe (NZ site) for about $40K AUD, CAT 3 and a lot closer to home....
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