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Old 12-09-2012, 02:21   #1
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Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Yesterday the new Greencat 445 build in Carbon and kevlar was weighted,
Hull deck and bulkheads and all furniture is in the boat , rudders are on and the total weight is 3522 Kilo , at this stage 1100 kilo less than the previous build GreenCat at the same stage.
Besides using Carbon fiber we have also used a new developed foam with a lower resin absorption and more Coosa instead of Marine ply in mast H beam and keels.
We will be implementing a few more weight changes compared to the previous Greencat.
The Change from Mastervolt Lithium to European battery will save another 185 kilo,s while giving us 3 Kw more usable power ,( 110 watt per kilo versus 65 watt per kilo) with the new generator another 85 kilo,s will be saved
This version will be equipped less elaborate ( no air conditioning and High pressure steam oven).
We expect the total to come out at 6000 kilo at launch with rig sails rigid inflatable and outboard included. A total weight savings of close to 2000 kilo.
the light ship condition with water diesel and crew on board will be 7200 kilo
The additional cost in using carbon including a carbon mast is 65.000,00
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:07   #2
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

so......

$120 k USD so save 4,409#. That's paying $27 bucks per pound of weight savings.

A six of beer in glass bottles weighs about 10lbs so if one of your crew members brings the beer, they owe you $270 bucks.

you guys go ahead....I'll catch the next boat.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:32   #3
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

I've always marveled at racers.
They spend $$$$$$ on stuff to save fractions of ounces, then they all drink lots of beer and they weigh a lot!
I know, rail meat, but it's still funny.

That said, congrats on a fantastic boat design.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:38   #4
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Nice to see a builder using Coosa instead of ply, I've been pushing that stuff for many years now. I love it. For some reason people tend to think I'm crazy though...
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Old 12-09-2012, 18:33   #5
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

good stuff but it is much more cost effective to resin infuse or vac bag panel material in house.

You're not crazy. If the client has money to burn, light the fire.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:29   #6
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vientoman View Post
good stuff but it is much more cost effective to resin infuse or vac bag panel material in house.

You're not crazy. If the client has money to burn, light the fire.


More cost effective? I doubt that. You can build in house panels that are much lighter and stiffer than Coosa, but cheaper? Not unless your labor rates are vastly cheaper than mine, and you are getting materials at rock bottom. Coosa costs about the same as marine grade ply, ie much less than in house paneling. We bill about a hundred bucks an hour, so if it takes me two hours to bag or infuse a panel it's already more expensive than Coosa without even considering cost of materials. And we all know it takes more than that if you include all the set up and clean up, and that's if you have a laminating table of the appropriate size already and bagging or infusion gear already set up with the space to build panels in, all of which also cost money we haven't even considered yet...
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Old 13-09-2012, 01:29   #7
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vientoman View Post
so......

$120 k USD so save 4,409#. That's paying $27 bucks per pound of weight savings.

A six of beer in glass bottles weighs about 10lbs so if one of your crew members brings the beer, they owe you $270 bucks.

you guys go ahead....I'll catch the next boat.
Hallo Vientoman
65.000 is $ 80.000 not 120.000. and that includeds a carbon fiber mast, boom and pbo stayes.
The Rig alone costs 25.000 extra so the extra cost for the carbon fiber boat is 40.000 for a weight saving of 1800 kilo or lbs 4000 , that is $ 12.00 per pound pf weight saving
If one is interested in low weight or extra payload this is worth while. , you can carry 4000 lbs of extra beer , or wine or whatever you please and still have a good performance.
at least we offer the choice.
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Old 13-09-2012, 01:33   #8
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vientoman View Post
good stuff but it is much more cost effective to resin infuse or vac bag panel material in house.

You're not crazy. If the client has money to burn, light the fire.
We only use resin ( epoxy ) infusion combined with carbon or basalt fiber , kevlar divinycell foam. Coosa is not used instead of infusion , we infuse the coosa and it replaces marine ply in high stress area like the keels, mast support , winch backing plates and a few other high stress areas .
I find it a fantastic material , a bonus is that it cannot rot.
besides resin infusion we also spray paint the complete boat in and outside to save a lot of weight instead of using gell and flow coat

greetings
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Old 13-09-2012, 01:41   #9
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Minaret,

I think I must have missed the boat on the coosa. Iv'e still got a fair amount of interior build out to do on this cat so if I could find a supplier in the Pacific NW maybe this would move the project along a little faster.

As for building custom panels, I was fortunate enough to have bought out stacks of core material from an unfortunate yacht manufacturer that went under and we've gotten pretty fast at knocking out fully formed and profiled panels with the added benefit of being able to taylor the glass schedule in specific areas of a different panels. ( Although it's not specified in the plans, some of the internal buildout can actually provide significant additional strength to the overall structure.)


Again, if you can provide contact information about a source for the coosa, that would be great.

Thanks.
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Old 13-09-2012, 01:48   #10
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Hallo Vientoman , Coosa is not used for interiors , to heavy and costly, Nomex is the preferred material light weight strong enough anf if you purchase just the honeycomb it is bendable to tight radius, coosa is only used in high stress areas to replace high density foam or marine ply.
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Old 13-09-2012, 01:58   #11
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Hallo Vientoman
65.000 is $ 80.000 not 120.000. and that includeds a carbon fiber mast, boom and pbo stayes.
The Rig alone costs 25.000 extra so the extra cost for the carbon fiber boat is 40.000 for a weight saving of 1800 kilo or lbs 4000 , that is $ 12.00 per pound pf weight saving
If one is interested in low weight or extra payload this is worth while. , you can carry 4000 lbs of extra beer , or wine or whatever you please and still have a good performance.
at least we offer the choice.
oops, I guess I got the exchange rate wrong. Yep, weight is the enemy of a cat and cash slays the enemy.

Although I am really not one to race, It would be interesting to see what would happen if a fully outfitted Greencat 44 were side by side with the new F-44SC in a fresh breeze.

The sail # 1 of the F-44SC launches mid summer 2013.
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Old 13-09-2012, 03:38   #12
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vientoman View Post
Minaret,

I think I must have missed the boat on the coosa. Iv'e still got a fair amount of interior build out to do on this cat so if I could find a supplier in the Pacific NW maybe this would move the project along a little faster.

As for building custom panels, I was fortunate enough to have bought out stacks of core material from an unfortunate yacht manufacturer that went under and we've gotten pretty fast at knocking out fully formed and profiled panels with the added benefit of being able to taylor the glass schedule in specific areas of a different panels. ( Although it's not specified in the plans, some of the internal buildout can actually provide significant additional strength to the overall structure.)


Again, if you can provide contact information about a source for the coosa, that would be great.

Thanks.

Here's where I get mine. I use it any place you would have used marine grade ply back in the old days. Note that it comes in a number of densities to suit different purposes as well. I have been using it a lot ever since it came out, for all sorts of structural members. I'm familiar with how it goes banging out panels once you are set up, but Coosa definitely has a place. Price it and compare. 4'x8' sheet of 1/2" 20 lb (high density) is $176.00 retail, more like $125.00 my price. Meranti 1/2" 9-ply is $105.00 a sheet, and we get almost no break despite a merchant account of long standing and high volume. Now if we compare strength-to-weight ratio as well as the fact that this product will never rot and thus have to be replaced, it seems like a no-brainer to me. I rarely buy marine ply anymore...


Fisheries Supply - Marine Supplies Since 1928
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Old 13-09-2012, 06:42   #13
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Hallo Vientoman if they get the weight right the new F44 will be hard to beat by the GreenCat 445. I can however hardly believe that they will get the weight as low as 5000 kilo, the F 44 has a very small saloon and the total width is almost 2 ft less but lets see.

The F41 was a lot heavier then the optimistic figure of 5000 , more like 9000 kilo but the new 44 uses outboards and that will make a positive change .

Has one been weighted yet ?
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Old 13-09-2012, 14:14   #14
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Interesting stuff - will you display the boat in Cannes or any of the other main boat shows coming up?
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Old 14-09-2012, 01:57   #15
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Re: Carbon GreenCat 445 was weighed (hull number 10)

Next year the Carbon GreenCat will be displayed on European boat shows.
Even better is making a testsail once she is launched.
Greetings
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