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Old 06-11-2006, 20:53   #76
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Kevin, Yes, at 20 degrees the surface area is not minimized too much, but on upwards, it is lessened and the boat does slow down. And you are right, at about 45 degrees, it becomes very obvious, at 60 degrees you have approached 'the point of no return'!
I think leaners do not slow down as much because of their momentum...that's a lot weight they're hauling down there!
That's my expert opinion....;-)
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:27   #77
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Mono's dont slow down as much because they arent going as fast in the first place.No, I'm not being facetious: when most mono's get to hull speed, more wind doesn't make them go any faster. (very little anyway) Then spilling some of the wind doesnt slow them down much.
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Old 07-11-2006, 06:00   #78
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Both good points.

Kevin
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Old 09-11-2006, 20:39   #79
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You always keep the hatch boards in and the dorades bunged shut, right? Most of the monos I see sailing do not. A knockdown could turn ugly really fast.

-Scott
Actually I do keep the hatch boards in place when the breeze is fresh. I have been knocked down three times in three different boats and at no time did the hatch boards even get wet. At approx 50 or 60 degrees of heel the lee deck is well awash but not much else is going on. It would be different I'm sure in large ocean storm waves but in those conditions a wise sailor on any type of vessel, power or sail would have all hatches and vents closed and dogged. We were talking about a cat that went over on a fresh day in the great lakes though, where large waves were likely not present. I'm sure that most of the time, a carefully sailed cat is perfectly safe. My point was simply that such relatively mild conditions as seem have capsized that cat would not have capsized a "1/2 boat", even with the mainsheet cleated and the crew below.
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Old 09-11-2006, 20:43   #80
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Upon further reflection though I do see your point that a mono without hatchboards in and vents dogged is somewhat analagous to a cat with the lee board down and the main cleated. I'm sure that if I had a cat i would grow to love it. Actually I'm thinking of designing a sailboat with four...no wait...five, yes five hulls. That ought to do it. One is good so two or more must be better!
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Old 09-11-2006, 22:57   #81
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Go ahead. Let us know how you get on......
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Old 09-11-2006, 23:53   #82
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yotphix, According to Buddy Ebsen, there are only three types of boats. Cats, half cats and cat and a halfs
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Old 10-11-2006, 00:25   #83
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No doubt Jed had it right. Now if you will all excuse me I will be in the parking lot putting training wheels on my bike!
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Old 10-11-2006, 02:30   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
Kevin... wouldn't using the windward board only create the necessary leeway should that hull lift? The boat would move sideways rather than lean, right?

Rick in Florida
Definitely the safest way of sailing with dagger boards, but a bit of a problem when tacking shorthanded.
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:26   #85
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Fast back 43 in Australia is a fairly popular cruiser that has a diesel on an extended yanmar leg, and also has only 1 daggerboard in one of the hull's.

Apparently works a treat.
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Old 10-11-2006, 03:45   #86
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Old 10-11-2006, 05:42   #87
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
Fast back 43 in Australia is a fairly popular cruiser that has a diesel on an extended yanmar leg, and also has only 1 daggerboard in one of the hull's.

Apparently works a treat.
Interestingly, there is a 44' cat being built in Gil's Catamarans, Costa Mesa, CA that will have one board. The idea being, of course, that you never fly a hull in a boat that big, so you always have the board in anyway. I understand there are other cats being designed this way as well.

There have been two instances when I didnt have one board because of damage or warping (yes, warped) and sailed with just one for 2 seasons. With the 'off the beach' sailing I was doing, I didn't miss the other board at all....but of course, asymmetric hulls are very nice....
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Old 10-11-2006, 09:51   #88
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Originally Posted by schoonerdog
There are a LOT of contradictory opinions. Friends of mine are the main delivery captains for Moorings, have been delivering boats for 15 years, do it full time, every year, always on the open ocean, most of the time from South Africa to where ever they need the boat, typically for a single leg streching several thousand miles, to New Zealand, Micronesia, Europe, Caribbean, you name it. They have over 250,000 blue water miles and after sailing mono's and multi's they now ONLY do multi's for more reasons then could be listed in a book, all of them related on how it is to travel on a multi in the middle of the ocean and many of them regarding how multis handle storms, because again, that's all they do, they don't anchor, they don't stay in a marinas, they don't do the ICW, they don't do protected sailing on protected waters. They don't even have a house, when they finish one delivery, they are on a plane to the next one. Among delivery captains they are more experienced than practically anyone else, but even that is anecdotal. Nothing beats hard data. I would assume that marine insurance agencies must have something like this.
I am a big fan of multi's and I plan to cruise one around the world. But I suspect that their popularity in the charter fleet has little to do with what is preferred during the delivery. Multis are roomy, comfortable, and don't lean much which opens the door to many families that wouldn't be comfortable in a mono.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:05   #89
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Originally Posted by rickm505
Dagger boards down and inattentiveness are not compatable.

Rick in Florida
Peter Johnstone from gunboat claims that daggerboards are more safe than keels. In bad weather, just bring them up so the hulls can slip sideways rather than dig in. He even says that if you just set the autopilot in really bad weather with no sails up, and the daggerboards up, the boat will just surf around and be fine.
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Old 10-11-2006, 10:49   #90
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On the face of it, I would be in complete agreement with Mr. Johnstone.

Unfortunately, the real world works a little differently. What is happening is that people aren't at the helm when things go bad. This was the case with last three cats, I'm aware of, that went over. They all had their boards down and an unexpected gust caught two of them and one had an autohelm failure. That's pretty much the gist of this thread. Cat's with boards do perform better, but require more attention.

I'm off to the SSCA annual meeting.

Rick in Florida
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