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Old 05-03-2015, 15:49   #1
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Can I afford to do this?

Hi everyone, I am not a regular poster here but more a frequent lurker.
I am turning 51 soon and selling out the business as we speak. I always been fascinated by owning a big cat and looking at perhaps around a 60ft 'r. My question is what the yearly estimated cost would be to operate and maintain such a vessel. I am very mechanical inclined and would do virtually all repairs myself. Purchase plan 500-600k range and no financing. Also, would I be able to keep a used 10 year old boat (providing it in good shape) in good shape for another 20? I would be starting with day sailing only for the first while (likely Caribbean) until comfy with all of it. So do i need 30k, 50k or 70k/year?
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Old 05-03-2015, 15:58   #2
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Wow 60'. Thats a big boat.

We finally settled on a 46' foot monohull, a Liberty 458, and love it.

We do all our own maintenance and have a well equipped boat in good condition as a starting point.

The workload to maintain all our very well sorted systems is just right for us. Having to tweak and commission new systems is a lot more work. So be careful what you wish for.

A bigger boat will cost more to maintain. We factor in roughly 20k / year for maintenance, upgrades and general upkeep.

I have 3 trades, 3 engineering degrees and over 30k hours of experience in motorsports so there is no job i wont tackle and complete to a high quality. With work and travel I outsource a lot of work I could do but dont have time to do. We probably spend 5k on labour from that 20k budget.


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Old 05-03-2015, 16:03   #3
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Would that include insurance and fuel or other consumables?
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Old 05-03-2015, 16:11   #4
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

I'm probably at the other end of the spectrum as far as mechanical ability. I'm great with digital technology but not so with mechanical ability. I outsource everything on the boat (including oil changes!) except the navigation and communication technology.

I own a 54' 2003 Hylas. Before I bought the boat I spoke to lots of people who had owned boats for 10 years or more of similar nature to mine. Some had spent 2 years circumnavigating, others were here in the Great Lakes. Here's what they told me and seems pretty true to my experience.

1) It depended on how much you used the boat and where. I do 1200 miles/year but in fresh water and only for 5 months. That's different than being in salt water 11 months. It can be a huge difference.

2) If you want to maintain the boat in a prime condition budget 8-12%/year. If you can do 1/2 the work, 5-7% (sails, new large capital items don't cost less because you install them yourself). Every bit less than that and you're not maintaining or the boat in prime condition.

3) Don't forget to "save" for large items - sails for a boat this size can be 20K. New generator or repowering can be even more. They don't have them often but when they do it will eat up an entire year's budget.

The good news, is that a well purchased 10 year old boat of this size will hold its value if you maintain it well. Talk to brokers (I really like David Walters out of Fort Lauderdale). They will give you a bunch of data too. They deal with this all the time.

Hope this helps.
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Old 05-03-2015, 16:17   #5
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yah mon View Post
I always been fascinated by owning a big cat and looking at perhaps around a 60ft 'r.
Why a "60ft 'r"? Forgive me for asking you to justify your preference, but what needs do you have to require such a big boat? If it's "just because", just say so and I'll shut up. But if you'd like to analyze what you think are your needs for such a big boat and are open to alternatives, many folks here would be happy to assist....

Dave
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Old 05-03-2015, 16:24   #6
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nesscapade View Post
I'm probably at the other end of the spectrum as far as mechanical ability. I'm great with digital technology but not so with mechanical ability. I outsource everything on the boat (including oil changes!) except the navigation and communication technology.

I own a 54' 2003 Hylas. Before I bought the boat I spoke to lots of people who had owned boats for 10 years or more of similar nature to mine. Some had spent 2 years circumnavigating, others were here in the Great Lakes. Here's what they told me and seems pretty true to my experience.

1) It depended on how much you used the boat and where. I do 1200 miles/year but in fresh water and only for 5 months. That's different than being in salt water 11 months. It can be a huge difference.

2) If you want to maintain the boat in a prime condition budget 8-12%/year. If you can do 1/2 the work, 5-7% (sails, new large capital items don't cost less because you install them yourself). Every bit less than that and you're not maintaining or the boat in prime condition.

3) Don't forget to "save" for large items - sails for a boat this size can be 20K. New generator or repowering can be even more. They don't have them often but when they do it will eat up an entire year's budget.

The good news, is that a well purchased 10 year old boat of this size will hold its value if you maintain it well. Talk to brokers (I really like David Walters out of Fort Lauderdale). They will give you a bunch of data too. They deal with this all the time.

Hope this helps.
Thanks i will keep his name
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Old 05-03-2015, 16:49   #7
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Why a "60ft 'r"? Forgive me for asking you to justify your preference, but what needs do you have to require such a big boat? If it's "just because", just say so and I'll shut up. But if you'd like to analyze what you think are your needs for such a big boat and are open to alternatives, many folks here would be happy to assist....

Dave
It has been said, a man should never put to sea in a boat whose length in feet is less than his age. So the OP can really only keep this cat for another 9 years or so....

Of course, it is a catamaran so maybe it is twice the boat and he can get away with a 30 footer...?

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Old 05-03-2015, 16:54   #8
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Why a "60ft 'r"? Forgive me for asking you to justify your preference, but what needs do you have to require such a big boat? If it's "just because", just say so and I'll shut up. But if you'd like to analyze what you think are your needs for such a big boat and are open to alternatives, many folks here would be happy to assist....

Dave
Hi Dave, i am not opposed to smaller but i do like roomy. It also seems most bigger cats come with better sized appliances
The other thing i have read is that the bigger cats ride smoother, but that is just from reading. I Do realize there is some disadvantages when it comes to mooring or lifting etc.
I guess it is going mostly come down what money can buy.
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Old 05-03-2015, 18:09   #9
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

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Originally Posted by yah mon View Post
Hi Dave, i am not opposed to smaller but i do like roomy. It also seems most bigger cats come with better sized appliances
As do cruise ships.

What appliances do you need? Perhaps you rather need a land condo? If you really need AC, heat, dish washer, clothes washer/dryer, trash compactor, jacuzzi, expresso machine, big screen TVs, high fidelity audio, lawn sprinkler, garage door opener, gym, hot and cold running maids maybe you are in the wrong realm? Why do you want a sailing machine? Maybe a big power cat instead?

Quote:
The other thing i have read is that the bigger cats ride smoother, but that is just from reading. I Do realize there is some disadvantages when it comes to mooring or lifting etc.
Yes, Yes.

Quote:
I guess it is going mostly come down what money can buy.
and Yes.

What cats have you actually operated?

"None" is an acceptable answer. Just be humble enough to understand that your fantasies may not be achievable if you are cost constrained.

Dave
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Old 05-03-2015, 18:44   #10
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

The answer to your question is it depends. I am not convinced monohull expenses are comparable to multihull expenses.

There is also a wide range of expenses for different cats. I have a Seawind with two 9.9 Yamaha outboards in wells. Couple of days ago I spun a hub. It is almost as expensive to buy a new prop as have a prop rehubbed, $US124 V $US58. While talking to the guy at the prop shop the story came out about replacing two props and damaged struts on a twin engine inboard at a cost of $US4,200 for each prop, plus the cost of a haul out. Some folks are just fine with dacron sails lasting 5 to ten years while others need new carbon stuff every season. My Frigaboat can make a little ice for a couple of drinks every night, but some boats required much greater cooling and freezing capacity. Stuff like AC, washer and dryer, hot water heater, electric freshwater head, water maker, and a host of other toys massively drive up the cost and lower the general reliability of a boat as well.

Without knowing what toys you want to drag along it is impossible to even guess how much it will cost to maintain a boat. But I am pretty sure it will be more than you think.

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Old 05-03-2015, 18:55   #11
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yah mon View Post
Hi Dave, i am not opposed to smaller but i do like roomy. It also seems most bigger cats come with better sized appliances
The other thing i have read is that the bigger cats ride smoother, but that is just from reading. I Do realize there is some disadvantages when it comes to mooring or lifting etc.
I guess it is going mostly come down what money can buy.
Go to a boat show - get on some cats. Pick one you like and buy it.

Money appears to be no object so yes you can afford to do this. If you can't you'll figure that out soon enough and then you can sell the cat.

Why do we always make this so hard.

Someone who doesn't blink at dropping $600k in cash does not need our opinion.

Oh - I could keep that cat going in the Caribbean for $5k a month so you should be able to as well. Unless you have more money then I'd do $7k and have even more fun. Anything over $7k would be ridiculous and I'd probably have to save some for a rainy day, or leave it to a cat charity (rimshot)
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Old 05-03-2015, 21:38   #12
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Everyone maintains there boat differently based on funds available. You can get by very cheep for a short period of time, but it will catch up to you. I say buy the largest boat you can pay for twice in a 15 year time frame and you will be fine. $500,000 boat plan on a total on $1,000,000.00. Then you will have a $250,000.00 boat to sell.
That from a monetary view sucks..but it is reality! I never add up my boat expenses yearly.....I like to sleep at night. A wise person told me long ago you will know when you can not afford to keep it, they have a way of telling you.

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Old 06-03-2015, 00:03   #13
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

Have owned a large cruising boat before? Do you have a partner or crew available?


60' is a lot of boat, especially with a cat which will be upwards of 30' wide. I suspect this I far more of an undertaking than you think.


If you take good care of the boat it's going to cost a lot though it will fluctuate.
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Old 06-03-2015, 00:54   #14
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

My general rule of thumb is to assume you will spend 10% of the current value of the boat a year to keep it in the same condition. This includes long term costs like new sails and engine rebuilds, as well as insurance, and immediate issues.

But frankly a 60' catamaran for a new boater... It's doable, but you are going to have to hire at least one full time captain, and probably a second full time crew. A decent captain is going to be at least $40,000 and likely more, and a good second crew (ideally the captains wife or husband) is going to run about the same. Maybe a little less, but I would budget $75,000/yr. This is in addition to the cost of boat maintenance. The captain should handle a lot of the maintenance so that helps save some money, but also uses systems so that wears them out faster. All I all its probably a wash.

As has been mentioned a 60' catamaran is a massive vessel. Most couples on cats are going to wind up between the low and mid 40's. Not just for financal issues but also because of practical issues involved in dealing with such a large vessel. Don't get me wrong a boat this size is incredible, but it isn't for the faint of heart. I would highly recommend spending some time on a boat this size and some onthe more normal range.
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Old 06-03-2015, 01:32   #15
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Re: Can I afford to do this?

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As has been mentioned a 60' catamaran is a massive vessel.
Pshaw...

Sure it's like a 100 foot mono but it's really only like a 40 foot tri...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Most couples on cats are going to wind up between the low and mid 40's. Not just for financal issues but also because of practical issues involved in dealing with such a large vessel. Don't get me wrong a boat this size is incredible, but it isn't for the faint of heart. I would highly recommend spending some time on a boat this size and some on the more normal range.
There are guys around here (albeit with lots of experience) on 60+ foot monos. So arguably that makes the 40-45 foot cat comparable. And based on sales figures that is the sweet spot.

I think when OP actually gets on some boats he will get calibrated to his needs.

OTOH - It wasn't that long ago that 32-36 foot cats were considered big.

No better size than Supersize! (Would you like fries with that?)
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