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Old 13-04-2012, 08:38   #16
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Re: Buying a cat in the mediterranean?

Jolly good - would love to hear more when you've sealed the deal. Hope it all goes through well.

Dom
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Old 13-04-2012, 11:05   #17
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Re: Buying a cat in the mediterranean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
...
Lessons learned:
.

If you buy in Spain be sure you get the boat completely de-registered at the seller's expense. Spanish paperwork is a pain, takes ages and costs a fortune if you can't do it yourself. De-registration was 9 weeks while my registration in germany took only 3 days.

....

Hi Rabbi can I ask about de-registration documentation? I have not heard about it before..
My boat was originaly owned by a Spanish chap then sold to the UK where I bought her. I have all the documentation from builders certificate, VAT and what appears to be registration documents.. Everything is is Spanish. Whilst I can understand the VAT certificate as it included price details, what do I need to look for by way of a de-registration document?

This is potentially important as we are planing to spend this winter in Spain before heading east over the summer..
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Old 13-04-2012, 18:40   #18
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Re: Buying a cat in the mediterranean?

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Thanks yes we did but the boats in the Med seem to be much better presented, they lack some gear but have way less use due to seasons.

To buy the equiv in USA would mean 25% more $$$'s We know we have done it.

Cheers....
Was that what you found in general in your search? I hadn't noticed that kind of price different in just looking online but maybe I'm not paying attention.

I've just started looking and had restricted my search to pretty much the US and the Caribbean, but a 25% price differential would make a European purchase maybe worth it, especially considering the shorter season they have.

Why such a difference you think??
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Old 13-04-2012, 23:32   #19
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Re: Buying a cat in the mediterranean?

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Was that what you found in general in your search? I hadn't noticed that kind of price different in just looking online but maybe I'm not paying attention.

I've just started looking and had restricted my search to pretty much the US and the Caribbean, but a 25% price differential would make a European purchase maybe worth it, especially considering the shorter season they have.

Why such a difference you think??
Scenario 1)
Our boat was owned by a wealthy man selling because his new boat's delivery is imminent and i think we were the only potential buyer so he went for our deal. The boat was used as a summer platform for entertaining and getting away from the colder north..Never really motored much nor sailed.......smiles! (I know of two others in this situation) This is a good scenario if you are patient because the outgoing owner gets to tick the "sell the old boat box"....= wifey happy :-)

He was wealthy enough not to be too concerned of losses. I guess he had his dreams as well.
Scenario 2)
In Europe boats are quite often bought new from the dealer and placed in the Med for private use yet under the banner of CHARTER. We've noticed tax is sometimes not paid as the boat is in Pseudo charter AND never gets chartered.
I believe paperwork is exchanged showing charters but it's just paper. Their tax rates vary however i've heard upwards of 22% now that's a discount!
Scenario 3)
Aussie exchange rate is fantastic right now,we sold our house to do this and our timing seemed good as i think the Aussie will slide now for a while.

Med boats seem better in condition we believe seasonal use and lower harshness of UV helps.

A cat we looked at in the states was advertised for 525,000USD we looked at it and eventually declined saying we would only look again at 410,000USD. week later we got the call. I believe that wont be the end of the discount offered as the owner has not maintained her and now he's seeing----- neglect = capital loss.

We researched for 3years so we are confident that in this space and time we know the Lagoon 440 Owners version market quite well. The only boats we are not familiar with are the non internet ones being sold privately.

Listed prices compared to actual negotiated sale prices WITH BROKERS in our exercise seem to be 20% HIGHER. Depending on owners circumstance.

One last thing we were cash buyers, a seller doesn't often like to offer a deal subject to finance preferring certainty to disappointment.

We were not ruthless, we showed respect, in all cases we listed the pro's and con's of each boat. We explained to the broker where the boat lacked equipment for OUR PURPOSE. We explained that cost and then asked if the buyer was negotiable, some were and some weren't, that's life.

The seller wishes to sail in company when he gets his new boat in three months and meanwhile we have his incredibly positioned marina pen till then as part of the deal.
ALL SMILES HERE.

As i said i know three other boats similar for sale here.....

Cheers Frank
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Old 14-04-2012, 11:37   #20
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Re: Buying a cat in the mediterranean?

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Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
Hi Rabbi can I ask about de-registration documentation? I have not heard about it before..
My boat was originaly owned by a Spanish chap then sold to the UK where I bought her. I have all the documentation from builders certificate, VAT and what appears to be registration documents.. Everything is is Spanish. Whilst I can understand the VAT certificate as it included price details, what do I need to look for by way of a de-registration document?
For de-registration I have nice certificate "registro mritimo espanol - certificado de baja" with cute stamps on it certifying that this boat was removed from the spanish registry for export to germany. There was also a multi page printout fromt he registry containing all the history of the boat, including all taxes that were paid. Also whenever the boat changed hands (even if it was just one owner who was moving this boat from one of his companies to another)

It just took ages, first they needed to de-program the MMSI from the epirb and VHF and send the confirmation of this de-programming together with all papers to the last port of registry. They stamped something and returned, the had to go to the port where the boat was currently located, get another stamp and finally send everything to some authorities in Madrid. Don't know why but it took weeks.
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Old 14-04-2012, 12:43   #21
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Re: Buying a Cat in the Mediterranean?

Rabbi

Many many thanks..
If ever we meet. You are most welcome on Tomahawk..
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Old 14-04-2012, 17:29   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us
Dom, Ty i've experienced through the boats wev'e looked at that most are fudged by 20%, I'm not revealing where we are right now until closing is completed on wednesday.
The asking price on 6 Lagoon 440's we have closely looked at were out of our budget however in the end money speaks.
If you truly are serious and have the funds ready you will find a seller who will agree, it just takes time, research and perserverance!
The last three we were considering were owned by wealthy people awaiting delivery of Lagoon 450's simple as that. In there eyes they wanted out.....
In our eyes we got more than we thought we could or would.....
Cheers
Hi there, we are on a mission to find our perfect Lagoon 440 at the moment, congratulations on finding yours. If you know of any others going you considered can we somehow send you our details privately (not sure if that is possible) and you could refer us? Just taking a chance you might be able to help.
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Old 14-04-2012, 23:36   #23
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Re: Buying a Cat in the Mediterranean?

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Originally Posted by ratcatcher View Post
Hi there, we are on a mission to find our perfect Lagoon 440 at the moment, congratulations on finding yours. If you know of any others going you considered can we somehow send you our details privately (not sure if that is possible) and you could refer us? Just taking a chance you might be able to help.
Hi no problems there i've sent you my email address.....Good luck with your quest, we are about to look for some bikes :-) Frank & Vivien
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Old 15-04-2012, 03:27   #24
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Re: Buying a Cat in the Mediterranean?

hi hi i just regester in this web and i see your interest in lagoon 380.
i have lagoon 380 year 2001 in a very good condision.
i live on her 5 year and sail around turkey and grecee and now for the winter i m in cyprus the turkih side.
i wont to sail her becaus i live alon and i cant sail long distens alon so i m looking or for partner or for saleing her.
eve
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Old 15-04-2012, 04:22   #25
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Re: Buying a Cat in the Mediterranean?

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Originally Posted by eve View Post
hi hi i just regester in this web and i see your interest in lagoon 380.
i have lagoon 380 year 2001 in a very good condision.
i live on her 5 year and sail around turkey and grecee and now for the winter i m in cyprus the turkih side.
i wont to sail her becaus i live alon and i cant sail long distens alon so i m looking or for partner or for saleing her.
eve
Hi Eve welcome to the forum, hope you succeed it's sad to sell!!!!!!
Best wishes and good luck......Frank
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