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Old 09-07-2012, 19:49   #1
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Buy or Build?

I am an sailor based in perth working towards sailing away from the rat race. my ultimate dream is to end up with a cruising cat that is very competative so i can amuse myself by doing Regatta circuits. everyone tells me in Perth that our conditions are way to severe for most production boats and in general they are not that quick.
I mett some people at the sanctuary Cove boat show who introduced me to the Barracuda made in Sri Lanka which seems to be a good mix of both.
i am a carpentr \builder with the ability to be able to build a boat after purchasing the pieces but with the market the way it is it may be better to just buy one?
i would love any advice on the type of boats i should be looking at and any other relevant info?
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Old 09-07-2012, 20:51   #2
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Re: Buy or Build?

Without talking to you its hard to know. But my initial reaction is to suggest something like a Pescott (Lombok or Whitehaven), which is a custom build jobby.

The key question is how much time do you have, building takes a lot of time, the hulls and deck are the least of your worries. As Roger Simpson once said, when you are 95% done you are half way there. But a good strip cedar custom boat like the Pescott will perform well and be a good sea going boat.

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everyone tells me in Perth that our conditions are way to severe for most production boats and in general they are not that quick
Dunno who told you that, plenty of Seawinds live there or have travelled through, more than a few doing the lap of Australia. Plenty of Leopards sail there from South Africa. Plenty of other boats have sailed in worse places. Get on a few boats and judged the performance comfort issues for yourself. And in any event I suspect most production boats have a pretty good reliability record.

There are some good buys out there, eg a Crowther Super Shockwave I know of is going on the market soon, insanely fast boat, pretty comfortable and very cheap I expect.
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Old 09-07-2012, 22:29   #3
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Re: Buy or Build?

You just gotta decide if you want to spend 3-5 years building or not.

Plenty of production boats can do regattas. Just google some major regattas and see which producitn cats are winning. Almost all regattas are handicapped so in theory the boat doesn't matter a whole deal. Caveat that handicaps usually work in one theoretical set of condittions...
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Old 09-07-2012, 22:53   #4
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Re: Buy or Build?

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
The key question is how much time do you have, building takes a lot of time, the hulls and deck are the least of your worries. As Roger Simpson once said, when you are 95% done you are half way there.
I chose to custom build and am now 7 days from launch date of my new 42' sail boat. Factor's statement is so true, in every respect. When work is quiet for boat builders, it actually takes longer to finish the job because they have to be taking on a lot of other fiddly jobs that they would otherwise forgo when the order book is full. It's taken 3 years to build my boat that they would normally knock over in 18 months. However I've no regrets because you can't compare a custom boat with a production boat.

If you choose to build, my tip is this, engage a builder who lives close to you. It makes it far easier to slip out and check stuff or talk face to face with him. In my case the builder is 5 minutes from my home at Lake Macquarie. In your case Swarbricks in Perth have an excellent reputation although I don't know if they've done cats. I would certainly consider having them construct a cat from a kit if you were mad enough to build from scratch.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:22   #5
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Re: Buy or Build?

My current boat Peccadillo, a Chris White Atlantic 46 Mk II, was meticulously constructed by the previous owner. His advice to me "Never, ever build a boat yourself". Buy a new one or better yet, buy a good secondhand one at a big discount ...
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:36   #6
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Re: Buy or Build?

I prefer to quote build times in hours so that the builder knows how long it will take based on their personal circumstances.

4,000 + hours for a Spirited Schionning for example.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:55   #7
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Re: Buy or Build?

And when a designer says X hours - make sure you speak to someone who built it. Its usually x times 1.5 at least in my humble experience, - BUT building your own boat can be very rewarding and you can get great value and the boat you want. 44C on this forum for example has a boat that is big enough to carry all his gear, goes really well and is safe and comfortable.

I think Serrano (or at least Peccadillo's previous owner) is correct.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:00   #8
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Hi
You have a few questions to answer for you to get some resolution.

First...do you have the money available to buy a secondhand boat...say $300k to $400...to purchase a secondhand boat...if yes then buying is the easiest/quickest path to sailing your first regatta. Get on to as many cats as you can via charter, multihull club, other sailing clubs, beg, grovel, buy beers. This way you will actually find out what you want in a cat. Then you are ready to buy.

If not and you want to spread the spend over a 3 to 5 years then you are looking at building a boat.

When you decide to build you have some basic choices to make...the key one I found was the choice of materials which basically comes down to a few main variants. Wood, steel/al, composite. They are the big groupings. Under this there are variations of materials and techniques. At this stage it's more a case of discounting the types you simply don't want. Nth is will take a bit of research. Essentially for me it came down to ...know nothing about steel or aluminum so did not consider the,.
Now look at all the designs form all the wonderful designers out there...there are plenty. Look at the designs...what do you like??? I found that I would settle on a design and then nitpick until I found an even better vision of the design. Interestingly enough the designers are very generous with helping you with real information on your ideas. I had some dumb ideas at the start and these guys put me right...which is a very good thing for them to do.

Once you have settled on say 3 or 4 designs then you have to look at the materials involved. You now have another choice. There is the resale value to consider. Starting with the best resale value you generally have the good production cats, the privilege, lagoon, sea wind, etc. next you have the pro built cats usually an unusual custom design with personal taste features. Then comes us, the diyers. The composite boats are consider more valued than wooden second hand cats. I can't comment on steel or aluminum. So you choose timber, like I have, and you know the resale will be less. .but I chose it because of the familiarity of the material and the design...a Dix dh550.

So that is a starting point in my view, hope this helps.

Regards
Mick
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:14   #9
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Re: Buy or Build?

First -- if you don't KNOW what you want to build, you shouldn't even consider building.

Second, if you buy a production boat or custom boat someone else has built, it will move you closer to getting the knowledge and experience to know what you want and don't want, very specifically.

Third, a cruising boat being lived-aboard and a competitive boat are not the same boat.

Fourth, with a proven design you can get that experience sooner, cheaper, and it will be easier to sell when you're ready to take the next step.

Fifth, you're not out of the rat race if you're building a boat and racing it. It's just a different race.

Good luck whatever you decide.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:08   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanSicree
I am an sailor based in perth working towards sailing away from the rat race. my ultimate dream is to end up with a cruising cat that is very competative so i can amuse myself by doing Regatta circuits. everyone tells me in Perth that our conditions are way to severe for most production boats and in general they are not that quick.
I mett some people at the sanctuary Cove boat show who introduced me to the Barracuda made in Sri Lanka which seems to be a good mix of both.
i am a carpentr \builder with the ability to be able to build a boat after purchasing the pieces but with the market the way it is it may be better to just buy one?
i would love any advice on the type of boats i should be looking at and any other relevant info?
Wow,great responses . You can tell I am new to this , that was my first blog ever!
Ok I obviously need ti narrow down my questions. Does anyone know about the Baramundi? Built in Sri Lanka? 47 and 51foot very fast quite basic.
Another boat that looks great is the seven seas 50.I am a bit more of the school of thought to keep it basic and fast rather than a floating caravan.
When I said I would be keen to build I actually meant fit out and rig a hull package already built by a pro. Fiberglass or composite are really the only options that I would consider.fusion 40 ?
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Old 14-07-2012, 07:31   #11
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Re: Buy or Build?

Have no personal experience with the Barramundi, but damn sure wish I could afford one. Mike Leneman in California, MainPage, is a dealer IIRC. Now that may sound biased, but Mike's a pretty straight shooter with lots and lots of experience with various multihulls.

As for original question, BUY. unless you just like to build.
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