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Old 20-04-2011, 19:16   #16
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tons of boats

Man, there are tons of boats alredy outfitted with everything for less than a mil. There are also those older boats that have been completely refitted recently and you don't have to pay the high price tag. Retrofitting all that stuff you mentioned is very expensive and doesn't add but a small fraction to the value to the boat. Better to let the prevous owner eat it and you reap the rewards. If you want some examples PM me. BOB
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Old 20-04-2011, 21:51   #17
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Thanks for the replies - guess still need to read more in CF about plumbing and such things ... :-)
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Old 20-04-2011, 22:26   #18
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

IMHO it's a no brainer if you have the money but not the skills to do the work then buy a fully equipued boat.
You will never do it cheaper yourself or get your money back.
Buying a boat that has been well set up by someone else will save you a heap of time and money.
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Old 20-04-2011, 22:28   #19
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Zonker you're not ready, Grasshopper.

Buy a 40-footer (or less) and learn. Start with a less complicated boat. If you get a boat with all the systems of a modern house you will be fixing it in exotic places (or middle of the ocean), and as you wrote -- you don't have the experience or know-how to install/maintain the systems. Coastal cruising in the US you can always call Sea-Tow or Towboat-US on the VHF and get marina help, but if you really plan to go around the world you need to be more self-sufficient and your checkbook might not be any help. You need to have critical spares and know how to diagnose/fix stuff -- and the more complex that stuff is the more likely it is to break.
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Old 20-04-2011, 22:52   #20
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

I don't think you need to limit the size of the boat or the perceived complexity of your boat. Just limit the distance you go from a support centre or better still take along someone who has the skills needed to operate and maintain the boat.
Larger boats should have more redundancy in their systems if they are done right.
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Old 21-04-2011, 04:21   #21
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

I brought a lightly cruised cat and fitted it out how I wanted it to be ... took a lot longer than I thought it would .... and cost a lot more than I thought it would ... but now I have exactly what I wanted and know the boat inside and out.
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Old 21-04-2011, 04:53   #22
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Yep - that is what i thought. But on the other hand i realize its more a house than a boat you own. And that you have to be a janitor too.
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Old 21-04-2011, 05:06   #23
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Just a little note..... It's all about what you expect on your trip too..... I see a lot of people sailing around the world, in the same harbors as the super yachts and the nicest most high tech thing on their boat is a very small hand held GPS... no hot water....etc and those are some of the most relaxed and happy people.... sometimes having everything just means you'll be fixing it all instead of enjoying the places you visit. Keep it simple and preferably manually operated....
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Old 21-04-2011, 05:27   #24
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Buying an already-equipped cruising boat has it's advantages, and you can find them for much, much less than $1 million.

Here's an example of a boat that's been out there cruising, and is billed as "ready to go again": http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post668248 , offered by a respected member of our Forum. For $375K plus or minus, you could be doing your passage planning, rather than worrying with the time-consuming and expensive process of upgrading a "fixer upper".


p.s. full disclosure--ID didn't offer me a commission!
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Old 21-04-2011, 06:02   #25
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucySailoress View Post
Do you like rebuilding boats? Or do you prefer sailing 'em?
Some of us like both.
It's also a valuable skill to have when you're in the middle of nowhere with little or no money.
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Old 21-04-2011, 06:08   #26
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

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Some of us like both.
It's also a valuable skill to have when you're in the middle of nowhere with little or no money.
Even if you have the money, and assume you can find a mechanic. Are you sure they can truly fix the problem. It's not uncommon to sail away, and find your expensive job has been mucked........i2f
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Old 21-04-2011, 06:39   #27
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

Just a few insights based on painful experience......
1. Any refit or work on a vessel will cost MUCH more than anticipated.
2. "Do it yourself" is great, for about the first three months... then it turns into a hard job with a steep learning curve... and you are paying tuition.
3. Even buying a brand-smacking new boat (I know, I have done new deliveries) does not exempt you for the need to fix stuff. You are just fixing newer stuff!!!!
4. When buying a used vessel, you are purchasing a boatload of hidden problems.... I don't care how good the surveyor or previous owner is... it is the nature of boats in a marine environment.
5. And lastly (I can hear the howls in response to this one!!!), there are very few marine craftsman among the vast sewer of marine tradesman..... it is obvious you have deep pockets (as do I) and it can become very discouraging to pay huge bills only to find the work was sub-par. For us it has boiled down to "do-it-ourself" because of experiences with shoddy work..... at least we know it has been done right and we can fix it. We have cherished the skilled guys we have hired, but they are few and far between...

These thoughts are coming after 14 months of complete refit on a 52' Kanter, very systems-intense vessel, getting ready for a circumnavigation. Also, we are in Florida, where marine resources abound. We have been sailing for over 30 years and this is our sixth large vessel... and this refit was like getting an advanced degree in marine sciences.... Just thought I would let you know how steep and painful the learning curve is to help you in your decision. All the advice you have gotten here is excellent; you may want to start on a smaller scale before jumping into the deep ocean.

Regards and fair winds.
Dr. Michele
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Old 21-04-2011, 08:35   #28
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

sailnautilus ... I can very well imagine what you are writing above. In a lot smaller scale I experienced the same thing with my car in foreign countries ... :-)

I guess many sailors got excited abt the 1M number ... ok lets scale it down and talk abt a 500K and 200K boat. My issue is more if I go with the 200K boat and do the refit, if I don't end with a 800K boat cause the refit has to be "refitted" many times.

Also I don't want to risk that I am in the middle of an ocean and something doesn't run anymore because a seal has been forgotten or a screw was not tightened. As mentioned before (a little bit sarcastic) there is no AAA to call to fix the diesel engine ... :-)

To get these non-sailing things to know really - I was wondering if it would help to do it by yourself - when the s*** hits the fan, at least you know where to start with the fixing.

PS : I want to day trade from the boat - means I need sat internet, lots of energy ... was thinking abt a PV and Li-Bat installation. So I was wondering if I get competent help all over the world if I would have an issue with such a energy system.
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Old 21-04-2011, 09:15   #29
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

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To get these non-sailing things to know really - I was wondering if it would help to do it by yourself - when the s*** hits the fan, at least you know where to start with the fixing.
IMHO and in my experience, yes.
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Old 22-04-2011, 13:46   #30
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Re: Buy a Cat which is Complete @ $$$ or Requires Refit @ $

I agree with most of the responses - Buy a together boat and get going unless you wish to spend years at the dock rebuilding. If you factor in the time, you will not find doing it yourself very smart and the cost of paying technicians to install all your goodies will be prohibative. Anyway that old 471 is liable to be full of blisters and delaminations and having sailed Trans - Atlantis on a Catana I find them dumb for cruising. Daggerboards make too much noise and steal too much space inside, the running rigging is poorly laid out with too many winches, Once loaded for cruising they will be slower than a Lagoon or F.P. or St Francis etc. And they are expensive....after 3 weeks sailing you will wish for a washer dryer istead of a daggerboard....unless you want to smell like a french bilge rat
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