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Old 27-09-2008, 17:40   #31
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Lets do the math!

Gideon states in an earlier post...... Quote

The weight is 5800 kilo when she was lifted into the water without the rig
This cat has lots of options like airco, heating, solar panels, hard top bimini about 700 kilo,s worth including 40 hp engines a 4000 watt inverter charger, dishwasher etcReady to sail weight is 6400 kilo,s including water and diesel" unquote.


Butterfly and Barnacle owners state....... Quote"

Deduct a further 200 kg for the diesel aboard (one tank only) and we get 8635 kg. A vacuum generator unit was left aboard, too, so knock of another 35 kg and that brings us down to something around the 8600 kg mark." Unquote.


As gideons quote allows for fuel and water (lets add 300kg of fuel and the same of water) the boat is around 45% heavier than gideon stated.

Lets give Gideon the benifit of the doubt and not add any fuel and water, so the boat is only 34% heavier than originally stated. So doing Gideons maths from another of his posts...... , quote

"Hallo Ireaney yes if (modern) production cats would save on weight you would get a much better performance, down wind because of windage you would gain up to 9 % in speed for each 10 % in weight saved while upwind your speed would increase with 6 to 7 % because of added windage.
unquote.

We see that this particular fastcat will be about 30% slower than Gideon anticipated.

I wonder if the owners have realized its time to stop devalueing the boat through public discussion and shut up.

Can anyone explain where the 5% claim comes from?
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Old 28-09-2008, 02:15   #32
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Stockholm Syndrome anyone?

It's great that the owners of Butterfly are happy about the weight of their boat, and that it seems that the builder has been taking remedial action these last few weeks..

The fact remains, that Gideon has been bandying figures around that have no base in reality, as seen in Cattys post above, - end of discussion on that point.

If I was in a comparitive situation, I would have the following prorities:

1.) Protect my investment -Get the boat fixed to the best possible degree.
2.) Get the builder to take responsibility and act as fast as possible.

To achieve this will always be a balancing act, between motivating and threatening the builder, as at this stage of the build you probably have 90% of the price already paid.

If the builder backs off now, it will be a year or 2 with lawyers and an uncertain result, with an financially strong builder, he can drag the case on indefinately.

As the owner, I would be moving between dismay, dispair and anger in the initial phase of discovering all the problems and snags. Add a period of no forward movement, and acknowledge the fact that you are totally dependent on the builder!

The builder suddenly starts reacting to help you, and things start improving....Despair slowly converts to hope. You indirectly become grateful to him, as you don't want to go back to those very bad feelings you had earlier, in what looked like a hopeless situation.. add a person with the "right" psychological profile and communication skills and you can end up even symathising with him..(therefore my reference to Stockholm syndrome)

We don't know what has gone on with Butterfly, but regardless, I would in this situation refrain from knocking the builder any further in public, try and keep the atmosphere positive to achieve point 1 and 2 above..

I noticed that Gideon initially promised to stay in SA until the boat was completely sorted, now it seems that he is leaving despite his promise..

I sincerely hope that they get the boat sorted in time for them to get out there and live their dreams. The window for sailing north up the coast to East Africa, the seychelles etc is fast closing for this year, as the monsoon further North changes in October between what the locals call the Kusi and the Kazkazi.

Alan
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Old 28-09-2008, 05:46   #33
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Gludy CHOSE to leave by creating two "goodby all" threads, yet as I write this he is logged on to this site
If Keegan or anyone else is interested in communicating with Gludy (Paul),
he has started a new multihull forum. email me and I will send you a link.

"Keegan on CF forum is making points and claiming that I am logged into the CF forum.

I am banned from that forum and cannot post or respond in anyway including email. Yet is still shows me as logged in when I visit it.

Very frustrating! "
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Old 28-09-2008, 05:55   #34
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Gludy (Paul),he has started a new multihull forum.
ROTFLMAO
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Old 28-09-2008, 06:21   #35
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Weights

A slight thread drift away from Butterfly but still relevant.
Can anyone give me an approximate average weight for an aluminium mast & boom, fully battened main and 130% genoa and all the rigging.
I have been trying to work out the final sailaway weight of my Leopard as I had it put on load cells before it left the factory. The only trouble I have is adding the above plus provisions equipment which I know exactly. Once I have all of this together I can then also work out the lightship weight and compare it to the published weight.

Back on thread. If Dick and Karen are fine to be within the 5% then why don't we just let them go and enjoy their dream. They have had to deal with the delays which are bad enough so lets not start rubbing salt into the wounds and keep dragging this subject up every 5 minutes trying to point score against Gideon.
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Old 28-09-2008, 13:13   #36
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I dont think any of this has anything to do with Dick and Karen.
I hope that they will be able to enjoy their very expensive boat some day.
I think these posts have more to do with statements made by Gideon on this forum.
Are they facts or fiction?
I do not know what numbers he gave Dick and Karen, but I know the numbers he gave here on CF were way off.
It sometimes seems like paid advertising to me.
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Old 29-09-2008, 01:08   #37
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Originally Posted by tyrntlzrdking View Post
I dont think any of this has anything to do with Dick and Karen.
I hope that they will be able to enjoy their very expensive boat some day.
I think these posts have more to do with statements made by Gideon on this forum.
Are they facts or fiction?
I do not know what numbers he gave Dick and Karen, but I know the numbers he gave here on CF were way off.
It sometimes seems like paid advertising to me.

This situation is like when a new doctor opens an office in the neighborhood and your neighbors become one of his first new patients. After a couple months you open up your yellow pages and there is the new doctor advertising that he's very capable and can take good care of you. Then you start calling the doctor yourself - asking him about that care. You ask if the doctor can cure your arthritis, and he says he can help. You ask if he can get rid of your back ache and he says he can give you medicine. You ask him how long it would take to make you feel like 20 years old again and he says - 6 weeks.

The next week your neighbor mentions during a BBQ that he doesn't feel exactly like a 20 year old, and his arthritis still flares up occasionally, but overall he's pretty happy with his new doctor. A bit peeved at what's perceived as the doctors false advertising (since your neighbor isn't feeling exactly 20 years old after more than 6 weeks, and his arthritis hasn't been cured since there isn't an actual cure) you get together with a few of your other neighbors and plot a plan to confront this mis-leading doctor. The nerve of this doc to say he could actually cure arthritis and make someone feel like 20 years old in 6 weeks? How dare he make such patently false claims. Then during the next BBQ someone mentions that your neighbors sex life is suffering. Of course this too must be the doctors fault. Damn that doctor. He should just pack up and leave town because he's obviously ruining the neighborhood. The doctor does just that and packs up and leaves. Not surprisingly, no new doctor desires to come take his place, and now all the neighbors must travel 30 miles to the nearest doctor, who coincidentally can't cure arthritis nor make anyone feel like they are 20. But at least that doctor never claimed he could - right?

Ok, I gotta run. My car broke down on the way to the new doctor and I had to walk back home. Now my back is hurting from my arthritis flareup and I feel every bit of my 40 years of age. I'm going to have to skip my neigbors BBQ tonite and sneak over to that Doc who closed up shop. I really don't care if I feel like 20 years old or not. I'd really just like some Tylenol and I don't feel like driving 30 miles to get it....
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Old 29-09-2008, 02:59   #38
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WTF????

The owners said that the boat came in within 5% of predicted weight and they are happy.

But NOOOOOO, I should not believe them, I should listen to a guy who's first ever sailboat ride is the basis for critical review. Then another guy who designed his first rube goldberg boat but has never built one has the stones to criticize a successful builder, I don't think so. And the third voice of criticism is from a guy that cannot understand basic aerodynamics and has no credible experience. Ya gotta be kidding me.

If you guys would holster your gonads and listen you might learn something.
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Old 29-09-2008, 06:47   #39
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WTF????

The owners said that the boat came in within 5% of predicted weight and they are happy.

But NOOOOOO, I should not believe them, I should listen to a guy who's first ever sailboat ride is the basis for critical review. Then another guy who designed his first rube goldberg boat but has never built one has the stones to criticize a successful builder, I don't think so. And the third voice of criticism is from a guy that cannot understand basic aerodynamics and has no credible experience. Ya gotta be kidding me.

If you guys would holster your gonads and listen you might learn something.
YEAH... What he said!
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Old 29-09-2008, 07:06   #40
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YEAH... What he said!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

Good thing I was done with my coffee, or the keyboard & screen would have gotten a shower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 29-09-2008, 07:08   #41
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I think we could all "holster our gonads", eliminate the personal comments, and keep the discussion civil.
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Old 29-09-2008, 11:48   #42
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wow we really all dont get along, if the customers are happy and your not buying one who cares. If I give a free one to any one who is complaing i bet you would keep it. I doubt any one has bought this exspencive boat based on this site.
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Old 29-09-2008, 18:52   #43
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If I give a free one to any one who is complaing .
If you're offering, I'll start complaining
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Old 29-09-2008, 21:29   #44
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Reason 1287 why I like monos
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Old 29-09-2008, 22:47   #45
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Reason 1288, mono owners seem to be a little more mature?
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