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Old 27-09-2008, 03:07   #16
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David,

In hindsight I should have taken you on 1000£ can buy a really big headache if we converted that to the type of wine I normally drink

Put it into the kitty for something extravagant for the boat before it gets used for more mundane stuff..

Regards

Alan
I think a compromise - I will put in a kitty.......for booze

or double or quits on something else
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Old 27-09-2008, 04:33   #17
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I got the info from the owners blog: of Butterfly and Barnacle
I've been following the building of the Fastcat #3 ( African Seawing / Nieuwe pagina 1 ) and that's how I learned about the Butterfly.

Koen

Ok, Thanks.
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Old 27-09-2008, 04:58   #18
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seems a bit wrong somehow, that the chap who refused to accept the weight numbers and challenged the claims frequently was hounded off, whereas the chap who has been making weight claims that appear to be underinflated is allowed to continue with his commercial posts on this forum.
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Old 27-09-2008, 06:57   #19
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I hardly think Gludy was "hounded off".
He chose to remove himself from the forum.
Why?
There have been many other folks here that question Gideons claims, and they're all still around.
Let's see what Gideon has to say.
Even if he does have potentially heavier boats than he claimed, I personally like what he is trying to do and the fact that he shares it with us.
If his boats keep coming out heavier than claimed, and/or don't sail as claimed, then proof will be in the pudding and FastCat will no longer be.
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Old 27-09-2008, 08:49   #20
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According to the butterfly owners, the boat is within +5% of the claimed weight. Here is their quote:

"Of course, this weight includes many extra items we have added - all the optional extras we chose, and those items we’ve specifically asked for. This list is long - too long to be bothered with here, that’s for sure - but here’s the bottom line: Gideon’s contractual weight for the boat (without any extras - and excluding things like the hard-top bimini) was 6500kg; Dick’s estimate is that once we deduct our add-ons, we are within +5% of that - which is more than okay by us."

After reading all these posts from everyone betting against Gideon, I would have thought that there would have been some big scandel or something once the boat was weighed! So the boat weighs 5% over the target weight, not a big deal and certainly not a scandel of lies by any means. I can tell you that I have managed several complex engineering projects and comming within 5% of the intended specification is damn hard and you are always happy when you do. Be careful not to lynch-mob one of the most interesting catamaran builders in the business. Being innovative is risky and takes guts when your talking about the kind of dollars it costs to set up a boat manufacturing operation.
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Old 27-09-2008, 08:56   #21
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seems a bit wrong somehow, that the chap who refused to accept the weight numbers and challenged the claims frequently was hounded off, whereas the chap who has been making weight claims that appear to be underinflated is allowed to continue with his commercial posts on this forum.

Gludy CHOSE to leave by creating two "goodby all" threads, yet as I write this he is logged on to this site
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Old 27-09-2008, 10:31   #22
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Dickís estimate is that once we deduct our add-ons, we are within +5% of that - which is more than okay by us."

After reading all these posts from everyone betting against Gideon, I would have thought that there would have been some big scandel or something once the boat was weighed! So the boat weighs 5% over the target weight, not a big deal and certainly not a scandel of lies by any means. I can tell you that I have managed several complex engineering projects and comming within 5% of the intended specification is damn hard and you are always happy when you do. Be careful not to lynch-mob one of the most interesting catamaran builders in the business. Being innovative is risky and takes guts when your talking about the kind of dollars it costs to set up a boat manufacturing operation.
Sounds like a satisfied customer to me. After all the time, heartache, and investment and basically volunteering to be a guinea pig on a new build - I think it speaks volumes when the customer himself is , after all that, satisfied with the product. Judgement from afar is seldom capable of providing for a 'real world' understanding of what's really going on down on the ground. Human nature is to complain 10 times more than to yell from the mountain top that you're happy. Generally, we tell others we're happy in private - and voice our complaints to the world in search of a sympathetic ear to deaden the impact of our current state of remorse. The owners appear to ultimately be happy and I'm happy for both they, and that fact.
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Old 27-09-2008, 10:51   #23
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[quote=Keegan;209863]According to the butterfly owners, the boat is within +5% of the claimed weight. Here is their quote:

"Of course, this weight includes many extra items we have added - all the optional extras we chose, and those items weíve specifically asked for. This list is long - too long to be bothered with here, thatís for sure - but hereís the bottom line: Gideonís contractual weight for the boat (without any extras - and excluding things like the hard-top bimini) was 6500kg; Dickís estimate is that once we deduct our add-ons, we are within +5% of that - which is more than okay by us."

This is great news for the owners, and Gideon. You have to give great credit to the owner's patience.

I have posted before that Butterfly is a sweet looking boat. I can't wait to read what the owners have to say about the way Butterfly sails.
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Old 27-09-2008, 11:01   #24
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A lot of monos weigh far more than advertised also.. at least according to the scales on the travelifts.... I would imagine the architect comes up with a weight, and let's face it... it's really just an educated guess.
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Old 27-09-2008, 13:47   #25
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Travelift Scales Don't Give Precise Numbers

I have to agree with Cheechako. A year ago I launched a 30' one-off catamaran. Because of its 17' beam the marina had to use its 35 ton travelift. I asked them to weigh it while in the slings. Apparently, the increments on the scale were pretty vague and so the best they could tell me was, "somewhere between 5,000 and 6,000 pounds". It was a bit more than I expected but that estimate included full tanks and all the gear I thought necessary.

Mike
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Old 27-09-2008, 14:05   #26
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I have to use a mobile crane to pick up and place my boat in my back yard to work on it. 2 different cranes over a 6 year period all showing 13,000#. All information on the boat I have ever found states the weight to be 10,500#. It adds up quick! I have'nt a clue where the 2,500# is!
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Old 27-09-2008, 15:33   #27
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Sounds like everyone is playing kricket:

"Our surveyor came up with a list of modifications he thought necessary to make our boat safer. Gideon felt these werenít necessary, but to his credit, has agreed to implement all of them anyway, and at his cost."

Sept 12th comments from the owner.

Lotta builders would have said the hell with you, you get it like I built it.
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Old 27-09-2008, 15:41   #28
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Even with all the hassles, it sounds like the buyers are still very satisfied with Gideon's service, and their boat. That must reflect well on him I would think.
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Old 27-09-2008, 15:43   #29
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Trust me, I do engineering projects for a living and Mr Murphy is alive well and extremely active.

Sometimes you just scratch your head and say: "how the hell did that happen?"
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Old 27-09-2008, 17:00   #30
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Trust me, I do engineering projects for a living and Mr Murphy is alive well and extremely active.
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law: Murphy was an optimist.
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