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Old 19-11-2006, 15:37   #16
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A similar type of kit (to the fusion) is available from RMK marine in Melbourne. Quite a bit cheaper than the Fusion, and it has an interior kit too. I believe it's a Schionning design.
Try www.rmkmarine.com.au
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Old 19-11-2006, 16:03   #17
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Greetings all...
Rick... how long is a piece of string? But to give the solid numbers that I can, this is in AUD$ convert by X .76 for US$. Standing rig from "allyacht Spars" about $15,000 for crusier gear up to double that for rotating fractional high performance but you can go anywhere you want to go.. Sails start at $7K dacron plain sail to anywhere you want to go... Fitout materials.. start at about $30K and go anywhere you want to go..

Roverhi... building is not the thing for everyone but it is for me. If it wasn't possible to build and come out ahead how can you explain the profitable boat builders mate? If you got it, you got and if you don't you shouldn't. An example? In my latest paper there is an article about a guy who woke up one morniing and decided to build a boat. And he did. A beaut of a classic schooner. Alden Malabar design. The thing that was remarkable was that at the time he didn't even know how to sail! He and his partner went to the islands and chartered a boat to work it out prior to launch. His profession? Photographer! No usefull background of any kind! He certainly expressed no regrets when I interviewed him!

As far as speed... the liveaboards that I know in the 40 ft catogory or close figure that 10 knots is their normal target average in conditions a mono would be doing well to make 5-6kts. I'm talking Crowther, Oram, Schionning, Fusion etc.. you can build a slow cat if you want and you can sail them lazy if you want. I've crewed on a lot of cats and the slowest would make better than a mono of similar waterline, the lighter ones double. A displacement mono cruiser with a waterline of say, 35 ft or 40 LOA can not go through water over 8-81/2 kts unless surfing. Thats just easy cruising on a 40 cat.

Northerncat..talked to Richard who recently launched his snell "Bad Habits" and he is making steady 8 kts in moderate winds as he gets used to the boat. The snell is a little heavy for it's length, plywood does that a little and his is set up for comfort.. read heavy I think but it is how he wants it. I don't see him ever topping 15 kts but I think 10-12 may be had safely on occaision.

Cheers

Bob
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Old 19-11-2006, 16:07   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Norson
Bob Oram is a bit of a "individual" so has to be tracked down by local phone or mail. He generally will send study plans N/C. The model of boat that would suit you would be his 44C. Address; PObox 586 Maryborough Queensland Australia 4650.


Jo and Aggie Bucher replaced it by building a Bob Oram 44C and launched a couple months ago. Took 18 months not full time. Cost claimed to be $120 AUD all up which is amazing. The boat looks great. I have a photo.
Bob now does have a website. www.boboramdesign.com.au/ There is scope for customization of some of his designs - there are at least 1/2 a dozen different turret designs on the 44c - really good guy to talk to.

Jo and Aggie's boat is in the photo gallery, it's called "Just Add Water" so you can see what you can acheive for that money, in that time. It is a very light, fast boat too.
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Old 19-11-2006, 16:59   #19
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Greetings 44C...

Yeah I know, since I made that posting there has been a web site orgsanised for him. I have a link to it on my home page as mater of fact.

Bob and I get along pretty good... which will be an indictment on one of us!
I like Bob's phylosiphy in general and have sailed on a 44C and they work... Xtra Chilli comes to mind first.

cheers
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Old 19-11-2006, 17:39   #20
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GFL. Unless you are a first class aluminum/SS welder/fabricator and are going to make your mast, boom and all fittings including wire ends; a sailmaker with Commercial sewing machine and access to OEM pricing on cloth, canvas and hardware; a first class cabinet maker with your own teak forest; a Polyester/epoxy well with woven roving vines on the property; and can work at double time in all the skills required, can't see how you are going to meet your time and cost estimates.

We built our boat at a severe downtime in the boat building industry. Deals were plentiful and labor cheap. We got better than OEM prices on almost everything that went into the boat. We went direct to the fabricators/mfg and bought mast, hardware and fittings at better than OEM pricing 'cause the boat builders were stringing out delivery on already manufactured goods. We bought direct from England for all the sailing hardware at probably less than 20% of todays WM pricing at a time when the dollar was particularly strong; we had a friend with a sail loft who supplied the material and sewed the bare sails at his cost while we did all the hand work; the more than a 1,000bf of teak came from a boat company going out of business for less than $2bf; the 1,000's of fasteners needed came direct from the wholesaler; we had less than $2,000 of outside labor; our Avon was a 'gift' for working boat shows and odd jobs; our hard dinghy and outboard were freebies that I had to repair; and otherwise scrounged and ferreted every good deal we could find. Anything we couldn't buy direct was purchased with a 'trade discount' at the local marine store. In short, we bought everything for the boat at probably less than 30% of todays prices. Despite having done all that, we still had way more than $20,000 in materials in the boat less than three months into the building process. That's when I quit keeping track of the cost 'cause I didn't want to scare myself. Good thing my wife never asked what everything cost or we wouldn't still be married. BTW, that didn't include any electronics.

I know I'm not fast but didn't have to build the hull and deck, either. I did work full time on the boat for a year with another 1/2 year of partime work till we were ready to shove off. My wife worked a regular job but helped as much as she could. Work continued from sun up till sundown and any weekend away from the boat made us feel so guilty we'd work into the night to make up for it.

I'm just a little sceptical about your cost and time estimates having gone through the process when things were way cheaper. If you can do it, my hats off. Would like to see your books when you are ready to shove off on that cruise, however. Got a feeling that the piggy bank is going to be flatter and the time longer than your estimate. Even if your estimate proves incorrect, you should be be paid handsomely for your effort when you sell the boat.

As far as cost of the boat, figure a 1/3rd of the total is going to be the hull and deck. Materials to finish it out and necessary sailing hardware will eat up the rest. I haven't budgeted for outside labor so don't forget that that will drive up the price considerably if you aren't going to build the boat yourself.

Aloha
Peter O.
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:12   #21
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bob your figures sound ok for the heavier easiers, however mine is going to be one of the light ones, i was just talking to a guy who bought a 37 called tiata, he reckoned he sees 8kn in 6kn wind, and reckons 8-10 is easy, he has seen 16 without pushing it and reckons that if he were more inclined to speed than cruising theres a bit more room left on the throttle, his boat was immaculately fitted out and i stole many ideas,

roverhi all i can say is build a cat next time
re the cost
well hull materials ply 9500
epoxy 4500 260l
timber 3000
glass 2000
screws 500
tools well i had most of these already but ive spent about 3000
paint 2000
costs have gone up in the year or os since i pourchased(started oct 05)
however this gives me enough materials to finish the shell completely
i have also purchased an oven $500, 4 90w solar panels 2400, $700 solar regulator, $400cooktop, shower, toilet washing machine $700, taps, fridge, winches 2400,
im making my own mast, boom and just have to pput it together now and it cost me $6000

i know many people in aus who have built these easys for sub 70000



i still have to wire and plumb my boat, buy sails and 2 outboards and any other sundries i might need
these are my costs to date and i think it makes a damn affordable boat.
i make everything for the boat and have taught myself to weld (tig,mig and arc) so that i can make up most of the fittings i need(helps if you have a boilermaker for a mate) as some of the stainless things like bow rails are very expensive

as for the time taken well i build in my backyard which enables me to put 5m here and there, i take sunday off but work all day saturday and nearly every afternoon after work(its quite therapeutic), i run a fairly goo timeline(although i have lost about 2 mths due to procrastination ross river fever etc), my timeline has me finished around the end of january07 and cruising around june07
sean
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:15   #22
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Getting the motivation

It take's a lot of determination and motivation to tackle a project of this size.

Trying desperatly to get the motivation to get back into my project.
A bit daunting doing a 50 footer by yourself, especialy with summer just around the corner, and in desperate need of a holiday as I haven't had one in the last god knows how many years that did'nt involve building boats, renovating houses and building houses.

That and a couple of operations have pulled me up a bit.

I envy anyone who get's a kit boat at the moment, and really envy the lucky people with a boat that's actually in the water.

I had one once, maybe I should have kept her.

Or maybe I need to pour myself a big mugacino of "Harden the F...k up"
and get back out there and stop being a girlie man.

Maybe tommorrow.

Dave

PS : Dont I sound like a sook, I'd better go and wash my dress.
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:20   #23
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this is what itll look like when its finished and i reckon it looks pretty cool, mine will have a targa bar though
sean
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:23   #24
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What did you end up deciding on to do the targa out of Sean??
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:31   #25
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i was just about to mention your effort cat as you posted some figures in another thread i think you had budgetted 110000 for your effort and fifty had yor shell finished???
i know exactly what your talking about motivation wise, this is why i say i have lost 2 mths of my part time effort as you get those days where you lose your momentum and it just takes a while to get fired up again, i have just come out of one of these and am firing on all cylinders so to speak, also being a dad tends to get in the way of the project a bit(the kids love their new playground though)
sean
oh yes stop being a sook, take the dress off and get out and into the midday heat underneath a hot tarp so that in 6 mths time i can teach you how to get crays properly
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:32   #26
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6 ply, 42*19, and 200gsm and a bit of uni
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:33   #27
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as for the hulls mine took 4 weeks each from go to faired
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:44   #28
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Thats the way Sean, poke the lazy dog with a stick, that'll get him moving.

A few more pokes form the rest of ya and I might be forced to do something.

Dave
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:49   #29
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Roverhi, having had a little to do with fitting out a monohull, I do believe they are much more work and money to do. Simply standing it up and accessing the boat is a much bigger deal. I have an upturned milk crate which I use to step up onto the boat - a mono would require a ladder - getting material into the boat is much easier with a cat. The boat stands on a couple of bits of scrap timber - no need for stands.

There is much less of an imperative to do a "traditional" fitout in a cat - we are happy enough to simply fair and paint the majority of the interior - no teak planking on the hull sides or solid teak furniture. Just a few timber highlights here and there is about all I am aiming for.

I also know one guy who has built a similar boat to mine in less than 18 months, (for his brother in law)then he built another (for himself) which is 7/8ths complete in 12 months, then a 12 metre power trihull in about 12 months (it is due to launch this week, so he can now finish his own boat).

A bloke who lives nearby built an easy 11.7, a similar boat to Seans in under 2 years, of which less than one year was fulltime boat building.

It certainly can be done.
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Old 19-11-2006, 19:51   #30
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you see cat i cannot work on my boat now due to the fact that i am hard at work(earning the money to build) teaching my students why they should build boats, whereas you are losing an hour that you can never get back reading this when you could be epoxying this sanding that etcetc
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