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Old 15-07-2006, 22:37   #1
Bob Norson
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BUILD A CAT??

How about a modern 44 foot cat for $80,000US! It can be done. Last year I did a lot of research and amazingly, got three well known Australian design/kit building houses to cooperate on the feature! (They said it couldn't be done!) This is an issue of The Coastal Passage that was never posted on the web site and I have had numerous requests for back issues so I thought maybe I should get this one uploaded. This is the article only, not the whole issue # 13. The thrust of it is a discussion on cost, time and alternatives when building or contracting to build the popular 40-50 foot cruising cats in modern, light weight materials. The pro's and cons. see http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/build_cat.html The kits and designs in this feature are available world wide. All cost's in the article are Australian dollars. To convert to US $ multiply by .75 (roughly)
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Old 16-07-2006, 00:08   #2
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Yeah! I thought of building a glass Cat until I found out how many hours it takes. Gett'n too old for that.

For one man it takes 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, at 120 weeks. With $80,000 US in materials

If I had that much time & $$ to spare I could buy one new.

There is Tropoboat up in Darwin, AU that started one but haven't seen any of his posts for over a year now. I wonder how far he's got with his............_-/)
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Old 16-07-2006, 03:49   #3
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Greetings Delmarrey

Yeah... thats about right.. 4800 hours is just slightly on the high side but depends on your asperations of finish and furniture. I agree, I want to see that labour figure reduced. As a matter of fact I am in the beginnings of research and consulting with Bob Oram and perhaps the Schionnings over this. I have some ideas about simplifying the project to keep the hours down around 3500, hopefully less. This would be accomplished by making the boat very "bare boned" but that is OK. (with me anyway!)

Mate, if I could find a boat around here of that style for only $160K (Australian so about $120K US) the cash would fly out of my pocket and I'm looking!!!! (You can always hope!) But sadly they are more like $400K.

There is a Bob Oram 44C going up north. A very different rig. Two unstayed mast's for twin wind surfer type sails. The project is called "Scrumble" and there is a link to his site on my links page. Haven't had a look lately myself. Maybe thats the one.
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Old 16-07-2006, 13:28   #4
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Whilst I would be the first to agree that Australia has some great Cat designs. I think you are doing some of the other countries a real diservice.
For example - UK you mention Wharram, but that is all.

What about the Richard Woods designs
or even BroadBlue
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Old 16-07-2006, 23:24   #5
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Just to mention... I am in the final stages of designing a 45 foot catamaran and will be posting a website within 2 months. The plan is to market a catamaran that can be delivered to the owner/ builder in various states of completion. The target cost for the boat will be approx. $250K, equipped and ready to sail. The design is geared for sailors, not the charter business; therefore she should be quite a performer, yet still have comfort. We are still working out some of the particulars.
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Old 17-07-2006, 01:23   #6
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Greetings Talbot

Mate.. certainly not an intentional disservice! The article was written from a local standpoint and considering local sources. Australia isn't even intirely represented in the article but the companies I did use I felt were leaders in the field and representative of the various alternatives in home build. Tony Grainger is a big name in OZ that I didn't use because he doesn't speak to the boating press for example and he seems to prefer working with pro builders. There are a swag of others.

Then you have to consider people like Mal Tennant in NZ and on and on.

Warram plans are available in OZ through an office in NZ. I will eventually get around to Warram and domestic designers of that class of boat, that is, ply construction, lower budget. A very legitamate market!

Hey fhrussel! Look forward to hearing more. What hull material? Foam? Balsa? ply? What projected weight? keels or boards? Stick hieght?

Cheers
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Old 17-07-2006, 01:23   #7
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Greetings Talbot

Mate.. certainly not an intentional disservice! The article was written from a local standpoint and considering local sources. Australia isn't even intirely represented in the article but the companies I did use I felt were leaders in the field and representative of the various alternatives in home build. Tony Grainger is a big name in OZ that I didn't use because he doesn't speak to the boating press for example and he seems to prefer working with pro builders. There are a swag of others.

Then you have to consider people like Mal Tennant in NZ and on and on.

Warram plans are available in OZ through an office in NZ. I will eventually get around to Warram and domestic designers of that class of boat, that is, ply construction, lower budget. A very legitamate market!

Hey fhrussel! Look forward to hearing more. What hull material? Foam? Balsa? ply? What projected weight? keels or boards? Stick hieght?

Cheers
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Old 17-07-2006, 01:53   #8
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What about Kelsall and the Resin Infusion process? Seems like that could cut down on the hull build time if the quality of construction remains high.
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Old 17-07-2006, 02:57   #9
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SIlenti said "What about Kelsall and the Resin Infusion process? Seems like that could cut down on the hull build time if the quality of construction remains high."

Greetings

One of the boats I investigated is infusion molded... the Fusion 40 thus the name. My knowledge of the process is skin deep however, I really should know more. I am familair with the result and the fusion panels are very tough and light weight.

If you are more familiar with the process please share!! You will save me embarrasment later mate!

The page says this is your first post? Happy to meet!

Cheers
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Old 17-07-2006, 04:04   #10
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I have to admit, there is a part of me that responded to Bob's post. The thought of owning a $400K Cat for $200K to $250K is appealing. However, the truth is that Delmarrey is right. I'm 54 years old and simply don't have the fortitude to undertake a project of this magnitude and my spouse certainly doesn't have the patience to have me disappear for a year or two.

If the boat building industry could figure a way to reduce man hours involved in a production cat, more people would be able to afford them. The automotive industry went to robots on the assembly line in the late 80's, reducing costs and improving quality. Does anyone know if any production boat builder is considering using them?

Rick in Florida
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Old 17-07-2006, 04:31   #11
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The use of robotised construction techniques demands a large throughput to make the investment viable. I suspect even builders such as Beneteau and Bavaria would find it non-viable.
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Old 17-07-2006, 14:04   #12
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TCP Bob: Sorry, I've no personal experience. Might be worth it to attend one of their workshops to see what you would be getting into though. It apparently works with pretty much any material you would want to use, assuming glass construction.
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Old 17-07-2006, 16:40   #13
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This is how I would do it...

I had a chat with Nigel of Robco Nautica inc. last week (or was it the week before?).
He is building large cats at Bonbonon Harbour in Southern Negros, Philippines.
He is a good bloke, Aussie of course, and seems very knowledgeable (a large cat was under construction in his shed when I visited).
Labour is very cheap in the Philippines and there are some good workers.
You can find his webpage at http://www.tongo-sail-inn.netfirms.c...n_builder.html
He also owns the resort next door so it would be very feasible to stay there and work with his crew on the boat.
Lot easier than 3500 hous plus!
Tell him Chris sent you.
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Old 17-07-2006, 19:02   #14
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Greetings all
Self delusion is an important element in boat building and publishing! No rational person would take on either! So don't give me your logic and good sense... stuff that I say!
Seriously, one of the boats finished in the article was done by a 55 year old (at launch, took 18 months) bloke and I know more examples... it's horses for courses.
On robots, Talbot is correct in my opinion. The building process will remain one of relitive custom build. The closest thing to assembly line is the Fusion 40. They have a slick process for the shell but after that it's same ole..
Asian build?? Yes, it can be done. Mark Prescott is building in Chalong Bay, Phuket with success but he lives there to supervise. Fusion is also moving to Thailand. Check next TCP for the whole scoop. However, it can go horribly wrong.
An Aussie company of limited experience and craft took their wanna bee operation to China with much fan fare and promise and delivered back one boat only so far that was the laughing stock of the recent boat show on the Gold Coast. A total dissaster and the worst boat I have ever seen, including amatuer attempts. More on that turkey later. MUCH MORE!!

And chris31415.... I checked your link. I'm going to check with the skipper in question but I think I know the boat you are talking about there. I recieved a report from a delivery skipper last year that was contracted to deliver a philipine built cat from darwin to brisbane and the boat was so bad he turned around and came back and walked away from the job saying the boat was no good. Among other things.. no keels.. no windward ability at all. Poor design altogether. He was really angry about the whole thing. I'll be mailing him today to find out. He is in Louiseades now.

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Old 17-07-2006, 19:16   #15
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Spirited Designs

Craig Schionning has an interesting design happening:

http://www.spiriteddesigns.com.au

and a "review" here: http://www.multihull.com.au/www/pdf/pdfs/spirit.pdf
j
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