Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-07-2006, 19:52   #16
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
Chris31415 that link is very impressive, even if it is a plywood boat. I wonder if he's given any thought to updating the design? Jeff, I had a quick look at the Spirited 380, and read the review, it sounds very nice, but there are no photos or suggested prices for the kit. Schionning has a fine reputation but his boats are a little on the pricey side.

Rick in Florida
__________________

__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2006, 20:00   #17
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No longer post here
Boat: Catalac Catamaran
Posts: 2,462
I know if I owned a Privilege 465 or a Manta 42, I wouldn't be all that keen to see a new generation of low cost Cats appear on the market. On the other hand, I don't have one of those boats, will probably never be able to afford the 500K price tag on one, so I am very interested in seeing new technology and manufacturing processes succeed in Catamarans.

It seems that in every industry, they first establish a market for their product and then competition compells them to cost reduce like crazy. Why wouldn't boat building follow the same pattern? It seems that trimming man hours would have a significant impact on cost, as would new materials to increase strength and reduce weight.

I hope I see this in my lifetime.

Rick in Florida
__________________

__________________
Tropic Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2006, 20:36   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
Chris31415 that link is very impressive, even if it is a plywood boat. I wonder if he's given any thought to updating the design? Jeff, I had a quick look at the Spirited 380, and read the review, it sounds very nice, but there are no photos or suggested prices for the kit. Schionning has a fine reputation but his boats are a little on the pricey side.

Rick in Florida
This is Craig (son of Jeff Schionning). Craig sends out semi-regular emails with progress on "the company 380" that they're building as well as some customer builds.

j
__________________
http://www.ittykitty.com
Jeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2006, 21:15   #19
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
Right-o Jeff

Craig Parted with the family business on sour terms. I think Jeff and Lorrainne would prefer the two companies not be confused. sad.

I don't personally know of one the spirit boats in progress yet... The art work looks pretty sexy though and I think Craig knows enough.

Hey Rickm505, If reviews are sourced from the mag "multihull World" I would suggest they be taken with a ton of salt as the mag suffered a bit of credability loss in the Multihaven fiasco. Just two issues ago they were ravin about the boat with much possitive editorial, that is now recognised by the trade as a horrible loser. Basicaly, it is believed now that their reviews or the writers supplying them can be bought!

Cheaper boats will be less boat but if they fit the priority of the market better they can work. There is no free lunch.

Cheers
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2006, 21:19   #20
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
Here's a catamaran design that I eyeballed 3 years ago. When I first started researching into boats.

It's a Bruce Roberts design. 39 foot catamaran. And I chatted with Bruce about how much would it cost. He said around $35,000 US dollars. But that was 3 years ago.

Here's the link to that boat.

http://www.bruceroberts.com/public/H...escription.htm

Maybe this'll help out in making choices?
__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-07-2006, 23:23   #21
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
And my point is...

The point that I am trying to make is that it should be possible to build a reasonably priced boat in the Philippines.
My caveata.
1. No boat is going to be better than its design. Particularly if building in the Philippines a good design is essential. Those incredibly tedious parts of boat building that some designers or owners just love can be done there for moderate cost.
2. Considerable owner input is essential on a custom boat. The ability to live (or to fly to on a regular basis) in a comfortable resort next to the construction site and to participate in the building process is invaluable.
3. In the Philippines some consideration has to be given to what happens to the workers at the end of the project as job security is an important part of their culture. This might take the form of a completion bonus or another boat to be built. The other side of this is that workers with security will work for less money and do a better job.
4. It would appear to be difficult to get well seasoned wood so this would have to be discussed with the builder.
Port Bonbonon is around 40 km from Dumaguete (the road is mostly good) where there are machine shops and steel (including stainless) fabricators, together with specialised woodworkers of all kinds.
__________________
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2006, 16:25   #22
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Out there doin' it
Boat: 47' Olympic Adventure
Posts: 2,634
Bob,

I look forward to reading about Multihaven - I saw their ads and checked out the website - it all sounded so promising - vacuum-bagged epoxy over honeycomb core, fully outfitted for cruising for under $250,000. As they say "if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is."
Have you heard anything about Boden boats? I have a feeling this will generate negative comments, but they're the only designer I've seen so far that offers stock plans for a steel "power-sailer" catamaran.
Cheers.\

Kevin
__________________
Lodesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2006, 23:04   #23
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
Greetings Capn K
I took a look at the Bruce roberts link...hmm. I wouldn't. A great virtue of the modern high performance cruising cats is their resale. As soon as you go off the path the value of your investment falls like a stone but if thats the boat that turns your crank...

Hi Chris
Mate, you made your point and you are correct I think with qualification. That particular design I am still checking out. I don't know the philipine worker in particular but the asian builder in general has the reputation of good potential with SUPERVISION. You can't expect them to know more than their local background but I think it should be possible. Ply cats can be built cheap anywhere but just don't have that leap of value when done. I would love to see a cruiser get a operation going with a crew that can be passed around from builder to builder at a particular low cost local.

Greetings Lodesman
I haven't finished the homework yet for the whole article I have planned but I have lifted the text from the boat show article from my last edition and put on a seperate post in this catagory and called "The worst Cat in the World?" Boden is a good name in design with many steely boats around. A steel motor cat has advantages in strength if that is your priority but it's going to take more muscle to move around... read fuel! Bob Oram has a great 8 metre cat that I think will set new standards when done testing soon. There are several on the way but all light weight composite material. Diesel is running around $1:50 a litre here now. I love to work steel cause I alreay know it and am equiped but.. the boat I want is plastic.

Cheers

Bob
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2006, 05:18   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Full Time Cruising
Boat: 1990 Morgan 41 Classic
Posts: 54
Bob:

**EDIT** ooops, sorry Bob, Just saw your new subject...thanks!

You mentioned re Multihaven

"Hey Rickm505, If reviews are sourced from the mag "multihull World" I would suggest they be taken with a ton of salt as the mag suffered a bit of credability loss in the Multihaven fiasco. Just two issues ago they were ravin about the boat with much possitive editorial, that is now recognised by the trade as a horrible loser. Basicaly, it is believed now that their reviews or the writers supplying them can be bought!"

What do you mean by "Multihaven fiasco". I had a look at the Multihaven site and it has me curious. I cannot find any information about why it is considered a loser. Do you have any other links or info you could pass on?

Thanks,

Bruce
__________________
laser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2006, 14:58   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
I have seen other designs like that schioning one. (and a lot of modern mobos suffer from the same problem). They are designed to be easy to get into from the tender, and great for stern-to mooring, but you need crampons to get onboard from alongside. Most UK mooring is alongside. You also need to consider the problems of rafting, and access across your boat and ashore. No good having a really difficult cross deck problem, and then complaining cause the people returning to the boat outside you end up making considerable noise as his wife tries to climb everest
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2006, 15:21   #26
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
Greetings Laser
For now what I have to go on is word of mouth among boat builders/designer who were there to see it and interstingly, Multihull world mag itself!

The latest Multihull World mag had a letter from a marine supplier that savaged the multihaven , and savaged the author of an article in the previous edition called "Multihaven Ravin" , using words like "..at best missleading" and finished his letter with "..I mean, just how many rich, blind idiots are there around who might buy a boat like this?" Get the drift?

The publisher was pitting the letter writer against the author of that article but my opinion is the publisher is throwing her (Jo Djubal) to the wolves whilst trying hard to look innocent. The publisher was correct though, in feeling he had to do something!! It is so widely known now that silence would be to admit guilt.

I will have something more substancial up later but aside from me I doubt this matter is going to recieve much press. (might be though..)There are a lot of "giulty" parties here and few want to talk about it. I believe the company has been playing fast and loose with facts and the result is now apparent for all to see. Hey, just today I was offered another "opportunity" via email to make money at home and all I have to do is give tham my bank details to get it organised... but I don't think I will.... and I don't think I will buy a multihaven cat even though I was offered one at a discount a while back in exchange for comment in my paper. (via email as well) Yes, you read right. Seems everybody wants to help me out!!

Hey Talbot!.. yeah, alongside mooring is a rare thing here and I would be very reluctent if I had a cat like a Schionning especially but it just isn't a factor here. Interesting it is in your nieghborhood! hhmmm.. I could see where that may be an important factor to consider in selection of boat.

Cheers
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2006, 21:13   #27
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Landlocked crew

Bob,
What you have in Port Bonbonon is what you have described, save that Nigel has given up cruising and swallowed the anchor.
Award wages in that part of the world are around P200 per day. Most companies pay less and there is some fairness in this because they also take on the responsibility of providing permanent employment, benefits etc. This is enough money to keep your average Filipino extended family in food, housing, clothing, expenses and a motorcycle. Filipinos are incredibly thrifty.
Average payout to an employee sacked for no particular reason is said to be 2 years wages and anecdotal evidence would back that up, particularly when they have been employed by a foreigner. Employees are not dismissed for theft, but the amount taken can be deducted from their wages!
The peso is about 50 odd to the dollar so starting rate is $4 per day for unskilled workers on "permanent" work.
It is generally considered better to pay extra and get skilled workers as they are quicker, make fewer mistakes and are less likely to be distressed when they have to find another job.
__________________
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-07-2006, 19:32   #28
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
Hey Bob Norson.

No. I do not plan to build that boat. The one on that link I posted. I was just saying, that I "had" eyeballed it just over 3 years ago. I do not plan on building that design.

It was just a thought. I'd thought maybe it might prove "useful" towards you or others. That's why I posted that link.

Back to the drawing boards I suppose?
__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-07-2006, 16:28   #29
Bob Norson
Guest

Posts: n/a
G'Day K

It does seem worth a glance but that class of vessel just doesn't seem to be embraced a lot around here. You were right in having a look and passing but maybe useful to someone else, as you noted.

Cheers
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2006, 23:45   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Boat: 23ft sloop of some kind
Posts: 2
I'm not too familiar with fibreglass, but perhaps a different material all together would speed up the process. For example, I've been looking into different grades of nylon for use as hull and deck material. So far it looks like an excelent material to use instead of fibreglass. Yet I've not heard of anybody using it to build a boat with. Price is probably the issue, since seems to be more than fibreglass (allthough didn't have a fibreglass quote to compare to). So the money you save in time/labour, you spend on the materials.

Now I definitely have the advantage of being young enough to spend 2-3 years building a boat in my backyard. Plus I know I'd enjoy it (or atleast a good portion of it, haha). So am very seriously considering starting something next year. But even still, the idea of cheap labour sounds much more apealing to me than spending 6 or 7 days a week working on it just to be able to get it done in 3 years. The idea I had was something along the lines of cheep teenage labour a couple times a week helping me with the work. Heck you can atleast supervise them since you are there (and not in another country getting e-mail reports of your boat's current status). Or even when you are not around, there are some tasks that can be done without supervision (some-painting, sanding, picking up supplies, moving the heavy items around hahaha). Especially when you're able to see the result a couple hours later or the next day.

All I know is that I've yet to find a design out there that has everything I want, so not only will I build it myself, but design it (which I've currently been working on for months now, designing that is). My only worry is resale value (and maybe insurance if I end up wanting some) because of it being homebuilt, especially if its made out of Nylon and Aluminum. Since I only want to sail the 1st one for a couple years before starting to build a bigger better one to retire on.

yay first post.
__________________

__________________
Mr. Noodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

« proas? | Used Cat's »
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upgrading a Charter Cat cameron forsyth Multihull Sailboats 45 26-06-2009 07:28
prout cat ex builder mickym Meets & Greets 1 02-09-2007 08:38
Cat sailing irwinsailor Multihull Sailboats 2 13-06-2004 07:27
Windvane on a Cat irwinsailor Seamanship & Boat Handling 1 29-04-2004 08:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.