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Old 15-10-2008, 06:04   #31
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... So maybe the rumours are not true, but who is Tony Smith ...
Tony Smith is the designer/builder of Gemini Catamarans
Performance Cruising Inc. - The Official Gemini 105MC and Telstar 28 Web
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Old 15-10-2008, 06:15   #32
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Thank you Gord.
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Old 15-10-2008, 06:31   #33
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Juststartin, I detect some bashing of North Americans (or at least, non-residents of the UK) with your rather pompous post. If Broadblue have the funds to track down posters on an international website for the purpose of defending their 'reputation', then they wouldn't be in this mess. And what losses have they suffered?

If your purpose is to stifle free discussion intended to alert boat-buyers to a potential problem with purchasing one of their products, then shame on you. Or perhaps you are just afraid of your own shadow.

People (including financial analysts) have for several years been questioning the long-term viability of some of the world's largest corporations (including General Motors) without legal action. It seems that there is writing on the wall for Broadblue - whether or not they are ultimately forced into bankruptcy, they are showing some troubling signs of serious financial difficulty.

And speaking of technical legal issues, if Broadblue is aware that they are beyond the point of recovery and continue to take deposits on vessels that they know (or ought to know) they will likely never deliver, then those responsible could be committing fraud under your own laws. These cases are rarely prosecuted, of course; and when they are, there is rarely recovery for the victims.

The best consumer is a wary consumer, and these postings are clearly intended to alert people to some very strange goings-on with respect to a manufacturer of cruising catamarans. Time will tell. But in the interim, your alarmist efforts at stifling debate are of little assistance. Frankly, even under your laws truth is a defence and one is entitled to make fair comment. Your suggestion that the damages from a lawsuit for slander could cure their financial problems, if any, is therefore patently ridiculous. The law may be an ass, but it is not designed to profit parties but to compensate them for proven wrongs that give rise to proven damages.

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Old 15-10-2008, 06:50   #34
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The minute I read this:

Quote:
The title is NOT a statement but a question, I heard through the grapevine...
my first thought was, 'What a great way to create an issue for a boat builder...or bank...or other business that largely depends upon consumer/depositor confidence. The children's game of "Post Office" was originally intended to illustrate--for children--how a simple message or comment can be distorted in the retelling (through the "grapevine") by just a few people, to say nothing of dozens, or hundreds, or thousands, or... All with potentially devastating consequences.

If one has a question how much easier might it have been to have simply contacted the company directly and asked the chief financial officer a few questions?

s/v HyLyte...

PS: And, frankly, how would Tony Smith happen to have any better information than anyone else not a part of BroadBlue?
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Old 15-10-2008, 07:30   #35
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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
The minute I read this:

If one has a question how much easier might it have been to have simply contacted the company directly and asked the chief financial officer a few questions?

s/v HyLyte...

PS: And, frankly, how would Tony Smith happen to have any better information than anyone else not a part of BroadBlue?
Exactly my point! Accuracy! NOT Gossip!

BTW - Southern Star. I'm British, non-resident and live in the USA much of the year. Please comment on my bias with this knowledge Go on - have a good old uninformed rant like some of the other posters in this thread! Join the club!
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Old 15-10-2008, 08:02   #36
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Gosh! that explains the glut of Chat Room Litigation choking courts all over the globe! [not]

So what makes someone litigation proof?
A. They emphasize verisimilitude with happy faces.
B. Anyone who can't afford an attorney is too poor to bother with.
C. Poor grammar or spelling equally applies.
D. Wildly contentious or patently stupid remarks imply diminished capacity and are sheltered by law.
E. All of the above

So, with several generations of underemployed lawyers (there are only so many political positions) We need to step up to the plate and declare out eligibility for litigation by

A. Writing lucid, well formed comments free of grammatical errors, colloquial expressions and spelling error.
B. Foot-noting the targets by legal name and address.
C. Provide toll-free numbers to our personal legal staff. and
D. Listing the page number of our Bios in "Who's Who among wealthy idiots who spend too much time on a computer."
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Old 15-10-2008, 08:05   #37
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JustStartin, you are the one who distinguished based upon nationality, not I. You said; "NO, we in the UK are not that stupid...however, there seem to be many posters who are." I really could care less where you live as it is irrelevant, it was your words that were offensive.

And HyLyte and JustStartin, I disagree with your assessment that this discussion is nothing more than gossip. We have a purchaser of a new Broadblue, bb beware, who has advised of the following:

1. His boat is now 5 months late and is still unfinished and with quality control problems including a hull with a ripple finish.
2. His efforts to get the boat completed have been frustrated because the subcontractors are refusing to work without being paid upfront; indeed, the upholstery subs indicate that they have not been paid for the last 3 boats!
3. In his ongoing dealings with the company, it has been brought to his attention that the entire staff except one have been sacked.
4. Ireaney has been able to corroborate the latter to some extent because in his recent call to the Sales Director of BB he was advised that sales manager no longer works for the company and has not been replaced.

THESE AREN"T RUMOURS! These are the signs of a company that is in serious financial distress. As I said, whether or not they are ultimately forced into receivership, the prospective buyer has a right to know these things. Kudos to the posters for bringing these facts to our attention.

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Old 15-10-2008, 08:20   #38
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Southern Star - I'm afraid selective reading has struck. Jreaney posted the bit about 'we in the UK....' in post #29.

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Old 15-10-2008, 08:57   #39
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I'm sorry, I thought it was you who not only adopted the comment about those in the UK not being stupid, but then extended it by saying that many posters not from the UK ARE that stupid.

And I still disagree with your suggestion that all we have here is gossip. While bb beware could be lying to us (and I doubt that), he is purportedly giving a first hand report of his own experience with Broadblue. Indeed, so was Ireaney with respect to the call he placed. This is NOT just gossip, it is strong evidence to suggest that financial problems at Broadblue are leading to customer dissatisfaction, at the very least. And if it is not the result of financial difficulties, but rather a complete lack of care about its customers, the delivery date and the quality of their product, then the result is the same: prospective buyers beware.

Brad
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Old 15-10-2008, 18:22   #40
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Just a gentlemanly reminder folks. If you want to talk about BroadBlue, let's talk about BroadBlue.

If you want to sling mud at each other, please take it somewhere else. This isn't 1776. That issue was settled a long time ago.

And I don't live in either UK or US (But I know people that do )

There have been several posts reported on this thread and unfortunately it is now on the "watch list."

Let's stay civil - thanks!
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Old 15-10-2008, 19:19   #41
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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post

If one has a question how much easier might it have been to have simply contacted the company directly and asked the chief financial officer a few questions?

s/v HyLyte...

For some reason I don't think the answers would be totally true. Most companies in trouble (just people and all ya know) would try to keep those cards "close to the chest".

At least a straight forward question like "Is your financial posture at the moment rather poor?" I think would not elicit a straight forward answer of yes or no.

Look at the US now (and also the UK). Just people ya know. Trying to make a buck...
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Old 16-10-2008, 07:10   #42
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Therapy--

I appreciate your comment but that has not been my experience save, perhaps, with sales people who seem prone to say whatever to "close" a deal. Accounting/financial people tend to be rather more candid and with them, evasiveness is quite evident. Further, I previously commented on the wisdom of requiring guaranty of performance and completion bonds whenever one enters into a construction contract. A CFO could not evade a straight forward question about a company's ability to obtain such bonds--either they can be obtained or they cannot. If not, why not. At least one party commented that he (she?) was not aware of such practice although, frankly, why anyone would enter into a multi-hundred thousand dollar construction contract for anything without the advice of counsel--who would surely recommend such bonds or the equivalent--escapes me. Perhaps with a major builder--Beneteau for example--one could do without, although it would be no less advisable even in that case.

One last note on this discussion was an earlier reference to a tradesmen who required advance payment before performing further work as evidence of the Builder's financial difficulty. However, such reference came not long after another comment about work that was not satisfactory to the buyer. It could very well be that a tradesman who had not done a particularly good job--it happens with even the best from time to time--may not have been willing to correct or redo the earlier work and in the event, the Builder may not have been willing to pay for such work absent corrections. Hence an impasse; and, a tradesman unwilling to undertake further efforts without advance payments. In any case, there simply has not been enough information to allow one to develop an "informed" opinion.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
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Old 16-10-2008, 15:02   #43
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Therapy--

I appreciate your comment but that has not been my experience save, perhaps, with sales people who seem prone to say whatever to "close" a deal. Accounting/financial people tend to be rather more candid and with them, evasiveness is quite evident. Further, I previously commented on the wisdom of requiring guaranty of performance and completion bonds whenever one enters into a construction contract. A CFO could not evade a straight forward question about a company's ability to obtain such bonds--either they can be obtained or they cannot. If not, why not. At least one party commented that he (she?) was not aware of such practice although, frankly, why anyone would enter into a multi-hundred thousand dollar construction contract for anything without the advice of counsel--who would surely recommend such bonds or the equivalent--escapes me. Perhaps with a major builder--Beneteau for example--one could do without, although it would be no less advisable even in that case.

One last note on this discussion was an earlier reference to a tradesmen who required advance payment before performing further work as evidence of the Builder's financial difficulty. However, such reference came not long after another comment about work that was not satisfactory to the buyer. It could very well be that a tradesman who had not done a particularly good job--it happens with even the best from time to time--may not have been willing to correct or redo the earlier work and in the event, the Builder may not have been willing to pay for such work absent corrections. Hence an impasse; and, a tradesman unwilling to undertake further efforts without advance payments. In any case, there simply has not been enough information to allow one to develop an "informed" opinion.

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
Agreed.

I would not know what questions to ask. I am the ignorant one. I would "seek counsel" cause I would still distrust the answers anyway. Bond protection (if that is a correct term) would be for me.
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Old 17-10-2008, 11:59   #44
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When we purchased our Tradewinds 28 fiberglass trimaran sail boat the builder started to have some money problems. At that time the boat was on the line, in California, with the hulls put together and they were doing finishing work.

I talked to the builder and he agreed that I could document it in my name so I did that and then I gave him a multi-thousand dollar advance. This protected me in case a creditor closed him down because the boat was already mine and they could not take it.

It all turned out well because the boat was completed about 60-90 days later and we sailed away as "happy sailors."
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Old 17-10-2008, 12:37   #45
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JerryF, glad to hear that it turned out well. That being said, if the monies you advanced exceeded the value of the (then) incomplete boat, you are fortunate that the builder did not go into receivership before it was finished. That is to say nothing of the risk that a secured creditor might have held things up by attempting to suggest that the transfer of title should be set aside as one done by the builder in order to defraud his creditors. It is still a case of buyer beware, especially in these times of financial crisis and tight credit.

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