Broadblue 385 - One Owner's Pros & Cons

[kcrane]

Originally Posted by redtwin

Wondering if Rob's team started a Owners association and annual newsletters for Broadblue?

I don't know of an official BB club.

There are a few of us in touch with each other, BB435 as well as BB385, in fact I share a pontoon with another 385, with a 435 next door. The dealers, Multihull World also run a 385 of their own.

Compared with Lagoon the BB's are thin on the ground, but we see a few around. Saw a BB38 (presume that was a Prout 38 re-badged) in Yarmouth on the Isle of Wight only a few days ago.

The Channel is a challenge for us (maybe not for the boat), so the Pacific might be a step too far, but I'll ask my wife if we are doing anything next month, maybe we can fit something in

[kcrane]

We had a good sail this week, a rare steady wind, from the south across the Solent, which meant we could broad reach along the English coast in reasonably flat water. Not a common situation.

With the cruising rig (small main, large genoa) we found 50% of true wind speed was about our limit, between 14knts (7 knts through the water) to 16-17knts (8knts through the water). Occassional gusts up to 20knts did not make much difference (maybe added 0.5knts).

We didn't try the gennaker, we may have got a knots or two more as the conditions were ideal, but I think that would have topped us out in single figures, it is a cruising boat after all.

We were carrying 6 people, 100gals water, 50gals fuel and a medium cruising inventory.

[Troutbridge]

Well, still waiting for the boat. Many delays, not entirely sure why. With a bit of luck it'll be leaving Poland in 3 weeks and I should be able to move aboard and take her out to Guernsey early October - just in time for the early winter gales! Anyway, light weather sailing. Has any owner tried a spinnaker? I get the impression that the screecher is a large sail, but heavy. Did you ever get around to a light-weight telescopic whisker pole to boom out either headsail?

[Moby Dick]

Troutbridge, yes as standard the screecher is a fairly heavy weight sail: I spoke to the sail makers, and they said that is because BB beleive most owners prefer to have a sail they can still use in pretty strong winds (up to reefing speeds).

He also said that you could have it made with lighter weight material if you wanted to keep it for lighter airs.

[Llamedos]

We have a spinnaker for our BB42, all 140 sq m of it !!!. I must say that we do not get very much chance to use it in the Irish Sea.

We do find it very easy to use though, we have a snuffer sock and working on the trampolines is very easy in the conditions you will be using it. U bolts on each bow mean that the sail is easily kept under control. We do have a spinnaker pole that can be useful if you want to use the sail at wider wind angles but we very rarely bother, again because of the widely spaced U bolts on the bows.

We also use twin headsails with the genoa poled out to windward and this also works well. Also much easier if the wind is likely to pick up since you can easily reef one or both sails without going out of the cockpit.

In conclusion the spinnaker is better for light airs, say less than 12knts. the twin headsails more functional above that. The gennaker is relatively heavy cloth but I would not recommend going lighter. As supplied it is useable in a big range of winds and can also be used reefed down if the wind gets too much. The gennaker on ours seems designed to be used once the wind is more than about 60 deg apparent, all the way round to a very broad reach.

[Troutbridge]

Anybody tried a Parasailor?

[kcrane]

I forgot that not everyone uses both the YBW and Cruiser forum's. Here is a post I made on YBW a month or so ago. The point is that it may be that the way that halyards are rigged on new BB's has the potential to cause a problem.

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We set off back from Poole for the 40 mile run to Gosport. A lovely start to the day, a bit chilly, but a nice F4 up the bottom and a chance to use the gennaker. On the BB385 this is the same material as the genoa, so quite heavyweight, but much larger. We didn't bother with the small mainsail, not much point.

We were doing 7 to 8knts as the wind picked up to 15-17knts true, with gusts up to 20knts, and we got close to the western entrance to the North Channel in no time.

Just as we agreed to furl the gennaker there was an almighty bang and the gennaker halyard gave way at the mast head.

The sail stayed up for what seemed like 10 seconds, then collapsed into the water in front of the boat. We ran over it at 7knts.

We couldn't use the engines with the sail and sheets under the boat. SWMBO thought to check SOG, and it was 0.5knts sideways, so we had some time. We decided to try and fix it ourselves, and if we failed after 10-20mins it was to be a call for help.

We tried to pull the sail onboard. If you had told me the sail was anchored to the seabed I would have believed you, we could pull in 3ft or 4ft, then it just stopped.

We thought to attach the spinnaker halyard to the sail and used the mast winch to haul on it. This got us some purchase, but now it wouldn't come in as it was under the boat.

This is where one safety idea becomes a safety problem. The shackles at the head and foot of the sail, where it attaches to the furler, were wired. I could only just reach them on the end of the short bowsprit. The boat was rolling in the waves and I sadly made a call to cut it free. The sail almost immediately ran around, out from under, and trailed along behind the boat.

We then pulled the sail in bit by bit, letting the water empty as best we could. It took four of us quite a while and a lot of effort. 10-15 minutes later and the cockpit was full of wet sail, the sheets were removed and accounted for, and we got underway.

We are now back safely in Haslar, and the sail has been taken by the BB dealer who will get it repaired for us (good response from Multihull World).

Update: MHW had the sail repaired and it is now back onboard.

The halyard was spliced and whipped to create a loop for the shackle. A neat job, but Mark reckoned the splice went a long way back up the halyard, about 12" or so, presumably to be sure it was strong. The downside is that although it wasn't overly thick, it was very stiff.

It may be that the stiff section reached to the turning block, and being much less flexible than normal, suffered a failure because of it. Just guesswork.

I'd also add that it is a big sail, and isn't used that often. It catches the wind even when furled. I think it may have taken a battering from the strong winds we have had over the winter. Not any one night in particular, just regular stretching and twisting, coupled with being stiff. Then when we stressed it in 20knt winds it blew.

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[libellula]

Moby
What should I pay attention to when I sail the BB back from Annapolis? it will be a 385. What is your experience with checking the oil in the engines on the 385? What is the rub with the round hatches?

[Moby Dick]

Firstly you need to know if the rig is 'Sport' or 'Easy'. They have more recently (last 12 months) increased the sail area and mast height of the Sport rig to give a bit more performance, so you should check which version it is.

I have Easy sail version, with small mainsail. I was a bit concerned about single handing, but find it no problem in practice. (When all lines go back to the helm, you often have to have all sorts of blocks adding friction and wear, and also a lot of string to tangle, plus it is difficult for others to help if they want). Everything is easily accessable, but you have the various sheets around the cockpit - no problem for sailing, but probably not so good for party/charter boat. The gennaker/Screecher is a must-have for the Easy rig: much better performance in lighter winds.

There is no real problem with the round hatches: lots of boats/cats seem to be getting them. The difficluty is in fitting some sort of blind over the two in the stern cabins, as there is not much 'surround'. I have screens that clip in.

Most reefing is done via the foresail. There is a 'knack' to mainsail reefing: single line reefing is available as an option (if you can stand the extra string) as is in-mast furling.

Oil checking is not too bad. The bunk hatches can be lifted with the mattress on, and stay in place via the self-latching struts. Then there is a lot of space around the engine. (I would rather have this method than the prop behind the rudder, which seems to be the alternative on this size of cat: brought home to me when I needed to reverse onto mooring bouy)

What to look for? Things that work in practise, not theory.

[Troutbridge]

Moby Dick would you say that the screecher is a good light wind sail? I'm planning on some extended cruising next year...I've got the 'easy rig' and the screecher, but as the screecher is made of fairly heavy material I'm wondering how it would fare in true wind speeds of around 10/12kts. Any thoughts/experience? I'm looking at getting a parasailor, apparently they recommend about 95-100sqmtr.

[Moby Dick]

The screecher is good for 10knts wind true (in fact much less: 10knots apparrent sees it pulling well) from anywhere from just aft of the beam, up to about 45 degrees I find. Downwind, 10 knots true would only be 5 knots or less apparent, and the weight of the sail begins to show. I believe a wisker poll would help (in combination with the gennoa the other side) depending on the wind angle. I have not yet rigged a pole, but both foresails deployed when running dead downwind works well.

But like any boat, I suspect for really light airs downwind sailling would be better with a specialist sail (cruising shute, spinnaker etc). I'd

[Moby Dick]

By the way libellula, be aware that all BB's can be semi-custom: you can specify pretty much what layout you want, including having one of the cabins as a workroom if you wish

[libellula]

MD
I think that is a good point and I will discuss this with the BB folks, probably on the way back from Annapolis
Thanks so much for input , it is really helpful

[philip van praag]

[quote=Troutbridge;95065]Well, still waiting for the boat. Many delays, not entirely sure why. With a bit of luck it'll be leaving Poland in 3 weeks and I should be able to move aboard and take her out to Guernsey early October - just in time for the early winter gales! Anyway, light weather sailing. Has any owner tried a spinnaker? I get the impression that the screecher is a large sail, but heavy. Did you ever get around to a light-weight telescopic whisker pole to boom out either headsail?[/quote

troutbridge
what sort of moring do you have out there and what sort of price we would like to do a season out there

[Paul Carey]

Hello we are Paul Carey & Rita Kirk, owners of 'Vela' sail no 002 bought new in July 05. After several years of 2 weeks in the Ionian & 2 weeks in the Caribbean chartering, realising that we were spending about £8,000 per year on these charters & with retirement approaching the various charter /owner schemes were starting to look interesting. We initially looked at the Sunsail schemes & spoke to several owners (not stooges) whom had come out at the end of the 4-5 year charter period 7 sailed away very happy . During our periods in the Carribean we had realised that for the conditions there , cat's were ideal . sadly in early 2004 it was hard to actually get a demo sail from Sunsail , their sales person in Tortola couldnt be botherd to meet us whilst we were actually on charter with them !! & their rep in port solent sujested we travel to Fountain Pageot in France & pretend to be direct customers !! we were looking at Athena 38 or Laggoon 380 at the time .. The Moorings with their office at Whitstable , not to far from our New Romney , Kent home did better & arranged a test sail in their then latest 40' Leopard on the Solent , Impressed we were too . But in both the forgoing you had to take the 'off the peg' boat to give commonality to the fleets. This was going to be our 1st & last boat with the rig designed to suit an aging couple 2 handing till they dropped . By chance at the 04 EXCEL boat show we had gone aboard a BB 42 ,Rita had been very impressed with the up galley & general domestic arrangements . In the autumm of 04 having had the Moorings test sail we wanted to compare, & BB's then MD ; Robert Underwood took us on a sail in a 38 (380) (this was the crossover model from the bust Pout to BB . We liked it & the fact that we could spec the boat to our needs & more so that BB the manufacturer had an arrangement with newly formed (formally Crusader ) Broadblue charters in Turkey , whereby the charter income over the 4 - 5 years before our retirement should knock a big hole in the boat cost .. Whilst we were thinking about this BB sent a flyer to us , announcing their new model 375 & on paper it looked good . Although Prout had failed, their cats were highly regarded & still fetching good 2nd hand prices . We went to the Jan 05 EXCEL boat show & did the deal . For a hull was believed to exist & delivery ex Poland yard should be in April to go into the Turkey charter fleet that summer season . Visiting the Poland factory was not really a practical option & the stage payments were made on the basis of e-mailed photographs..In the June we visited Oulton Broad where the BB office was located in Mark Elliots boatbuilding School/Furniture mnufacturing site , to see no 001 & just as well we were pleased , it was then that we learnt that our boat would be motored across from Poland for fit out in Oulton Broad primarilly because of the logistics of shipping the Z Spar mast from Ipswich to Poland.. Malcolm Taylor of BB charters put us in contact with a delivery skipper ; Stuart Finch www.salect.com a catamaran nut whom had Brian & Yvonne Kelly ; Snowgoose owners arranged as crew . Yes all catamaran people .. I (me Paul) then hit Stuart with news no delivery skipper likes to hear , could I (the owner) go/crew with them ? . It was arranged to take delivery of the boat , no survey , (Stuart would look her over) & depart a.s.a.p. as urgency to fullfill charters was an issue & after all BB charters were also the BB sales agent & would deal with all warranty work ... Being aware of our long term plans & the habits of charterers double fresh water tanks had been specified . These were the 1st items to fail & has consitantly failed ever since ,.but we were headed by F9 in Biscay ,although the hull performed incredibly. At the same time we found that the round GEBO hatches had not been bedded on to any form of sealing mastic & was letting in water . A tech stop in La Corruna to godge tanks leaks etc + refuel . We did lose the forestay in the Bay of Cadiz buts spares were supplied by the US manufacturer in Florida to Gibraltar in 3 days via Federal Express , impressive the man walking up the pontoon to the boat to delever. The stainless steel fresh water tanks continuously kept failing & BB charters kept welding them . I have the drawings from the Polish tank manufacturer & it is obviouse that the design & construction was/is flawed . But the tanks are large & installed prior to top being bonded onto hull . I t had always been our intention to eventually take this boat to the Carribean & BB charters earnings with it had fallen short of projection. Sowe decided last autum (Oct 08)o move to Barefoot Charters in St Vincent to see how they could do with it prior to our retirement . During the charter period in Turkey , the Stb prop had had several knocks & been welded , I had detected a vibration on this side . So as new props were on the agenda we opted for KIWI feathering items , which seem to work , but I regret not having the version with intergrated line cutters especially as we fouled a line on route Turkey to Gibraltar . damaging the reverse clutch on the Volvo-Penta 130 S saildrive .. The fresh water tanks failed yet again on this trip . .. Our plan had been to arrive Gib late Oct & then to continue to Carribean in the new year , When Stuart was available & has subsequently become a good friend, also the nuisance owner who wanted to go with Vela turned out to be fairly handy on the tools & is now a regular member of his delivery crew . The Volvo agent in Gib only wanted , the boat to be lifted to facilitate the complete sail drive being replaced by service exchange item !! . BB (the manufacturer ) were contacted re tanks & agreed to pay for replacement plastic tanks & shipping , if we fitted . Labour was paid in Gib to cut up stainless tanks & remove in small pieces through stb access . Two new plastic tanks . the biggest that would pass through fridge hole ordered from TEK-Tanks in Hampshire with them to ship + bag tanks from Force 4 to fit in dead space under sole (cockpit).Trim had always been a problem with both forward double tanks full . THEN BB WENT BUST .. So the tank conversion ‘ approx £1,200 .00 was an unexpected expense but is now as it should have been . The extra water filler for the ‘sole’ bags (2x 200 litres & room for a 3rd) was obtained from ‘C quip ‘ who supplied much of the original hardware. We have normally obtained our Volvo – Penta parts from the un-official agent ; www.keypart.com & they were supplied me with the g/box work shop manual . From this I was certain that the engine (MD2020D on Vela) could be moved forward 2” with only the exhaust needing disconnection to free the top of the box allowing the box to be split & leg maintaining water tight hull . The g/box cluster was brought home to our local engine co; Coastal Rides in New Romney, who have all the pullers jigs etc & a very good young mechanic; Danny. Unfortunately no spares were available in UK & on back order in Gothenburg & priced at approx £300! but on dis-assembly , I had noticed that written all over the g/box was Hurth ZF , a well known automotive manufacturer & a little work on the internet put me in touch with their UK arm in Leicester (their marine box’s are made in Ancona in Italy) Whose helpful man Ade Licence a) downloaded to me the ZF manual for what they call the ZF 10 model & b)put me in touch with ZF agent; wwwgoldenarrow.co.uk who had clutch on stock & shipped to me next day at approx £100 !!! Now I had heard that the Volvo engine was in fact made for them by Perkins & enquiries to www.perkins-sabre.com had drawn a blank ,but GoldenArrow Marine confirmed that the MD2020D engine is also named the Perkins Perama M20 & they have sold me (at a price) the manual & parts list for this engine . Of course they are also the Perkins agent. .. Talking of engines , I am a great believer that engine oil & filters cannot be changed to often & always use a diesel specific (it withstands the higher bearing pressures present in a diesel engine & has more detergent to capture/clean carbon particulates) oil preferably also semi-synthetic but find Volvo filters expensive , after 1st year I took used oil & fuel filters into local motor factors , whom matched generic automotive filters at fraction of price , so you can afford to change often .. The only filter elements we are unable to get a match on are the Parker Racor primary fuel filters on the aglomerators (water traps) If any one can get a copy match of this, lots of us would like to know. We did have an alternator, regulator failure. The alternator is actually made by Valeo (Pari-Rhone in the old days) whose distributor in the UK is the chain of motor factors; CAT components. The regulator /cw brush housing changes easily & we now carry one as a spare. We don’t know if its clumsy charteres but we can’t change the foot switches for the Quick windlass fast enough, it’s only the small micro switch inside the switch body that actually fails. I have written to Quick in Italy but had no response. If anyone can get a make on just the micro switch please let us all know. We found that the 16kg delta anchor supplied with boat just was not sufficient with the high windage applied by a cat so we have upprated to a spade type 25kg & never any more probs We don’t know if the forgoing contributed to a windlass motor burn out, but favourite is a jammed on foot switch pumping all chain out & running against chain stop. (I know the thermal overload should have cut out?) The relatively new UK importer for Quick is www.unipartleisure.com who are very helpful & able to advise us that the 1400w motor is a direct replacement for the failed 1000w item on this windlass. Shouldn’t have to work so hard & last longer. A problem that we have always had from new has been with the mast furling main sail jamming. Z spars are a French firm & their web site www.z-spars.com is fairly helpfull & is duplicated by the UK licence holder / franchise www.zsparsuk.com but there is slightly more info on the us website www.usspars.com . We have never had problems with other mast furlers on various other boats, so it is not us; I am planning to visit the UK factory in the near future & might learn. But any new info would be welcomed … That’s most of our experiences to date, If you can answer any of our questions or have any for us please also contact on e-mail ; ryrebonfireboy@yahoo.co.uk as I wont always be looking at this one …