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Old 11-05-2016, 23:30   #46
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

Lignatur,

Take a look at a fast catalyst. Some epoxies can day a day to fully set or longer, others set in minutes.
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Old 11-05-2016, 23:49   #47
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

Epoxy curing times never really bothered me. (Unless it went off too fast.) When you're building a largeish boat, there's always something else you can be working on while it cures.
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:12   #48
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

There are two factors that I don't think have been mentioned.

Resale
Sooner or later the boat will have to be sold, if not by you then by your beneficiaries. There is little doubt that, regardless of the quality of the finished product, a self-build will take longer to sell, cost more to sell, take more effort to sell and sell for a lower price than a comparable production boat. These have an effect on the cost equation and on the overall satisfaction equation.

Life Changes During the Build
Unless you can reliably complete the build in months not years then the probability of significant life changes de-railing your plans increases dramatically. Very few people have lives that are stable over such time scales. These can be any number of things:
  • Relationships (divorce, marriage)
  • Family - children/grandchildren/parents (arrival, departure, care needs, financial needs, relocation)
  • Career (change, promotion, relocation)
  • Health (illness, infirmity, death)
  • Finance (investment losses, new commitments, employment loss)
  • Interests (loss of, change of)
  • etc.

I would love to design and build my own boat, but I know it would take at least a decade and I just don't know what's going to happen to my life.

My father took eighteen years to build a boat and that was only ten foot long!

Home builders are my heroes, but they are all insane

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Old 12-05-2016, 14:03   #49
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

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Lignatur,

Take a look at a fast catalyst. Some epoxies can day a day to fully set or longer, others set in minutes.

Hello, thanks for your reply: yes I use both fast and standard or slow hardeners, but I will not do any laminating below certain temperatures or above some levels of humidity. Prewarming timber can be dodgy because of outgassing among other things. I know a fair amount about timber and glues, also temps and r.h. : I have sawn from logs and dried hundreds of tons of hardwood in my own selfbuilt kilns (I built a kiln @ most of my previous workshops and timber yards, 90% of which are sites which have now all been redeveloped in the UK as supermarkets or housing. My other workshops when achieved formal planning consent due to my responsible activities, the landlord doubled the rent). (I'm using some of that timber on my boat, sawn by myself out of the tree.). I have read Phd research papers on epoxy and gluing with different glues and timbers. I have read Phd papers on cancer rates in various States of America and in the UK related to certain glues, processes and building/timber operations....etc etc. It was when working in my business also a member of TRADA and had access to their research papers. This is why I only want in future to build wood/nails/rivets/screws/bolts.

As someone mentioned above, the reason I have built my own boat is so I actually know that it is done according to the book, I'm aiming for some ocean work in this boat. These things take a long time. I once shared a shed with a fibreglass laminator and have seen some dodges. My dad hammered into me, there is only one way to do a job that's the right way and well.


Today I had 28deg C and got a lot done, but getting up on the temporary platform I have under the beams I whacked my head on beam 2 and pulled a muscle in my neck. Ouch.

In my gluing I expect to be certain that every joint is 100% and have been know to test some joints to destruction as comparators. Unfortunately some of my joints have been tested in this way also.
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Old 12-05-2016, 21:16   #50
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

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There are two factors that I don't think have been mentioned.

Resale
Sooner or later the boat will have to be sold, if not by you then by your beneficiaries. There is little doubt that, regardless of the quality of the finished product, a self-build will take longer to sell, cost more to sell, take more effort to sell and sell for a lower price than a comparable production boat. These have an effect on the cost equation and on the overall satisfaction equation.


Sure a home built boat will likely sell for less. (This isn't an absolute certainty, since I do know of a home built Fusion 40 that is better built than ANY of the professionally built ones I've seen and would no doubt command a very good price by comparison.)

But the home build should have cost much less too. Especially alongside "comparable" production boats. Because finding comparable sailing performance to many home builds you'd be looking at some pretty expensive production boats.

And I've seen home builds that sold very quickly. In fact I have had unsolicited offers to buy my boat.
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Old 13-05-2016, 08:08   #51
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

I think one thing is home built, another thing is a one off by a respectable boatyard. A one off build by Multiplast, etc. may sell for more than a similar series built boat. This will not extend to a home built though. IMHO 'home built' is a sticker that will scare most buyers off. The boat may or may not be built well, but it will attract far fewer potential buyers.

As regards the costs, I think there is only a very minor chance of a home built or one off to be built to costs lower than a production boat. Many people disregard the vast difference in material prices faced by respective builders. Let alone the fact that a boat being built calls for a range of skills and tools that are hard to find under one 'home' roof.

My musings. Observation from the production camp. I have not built any sizeable boat at home yet. Maybe when I retire again.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 13-05-2016, 15:01   #52
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

It probably varies with location. In Australia there are many home built cats, their designers are pretty well known and respected, and home builds are not as feared as they may be in other places.

It's pretty well understood that if you want a boat that sails well at a reasonable price, either buying a home built or building one are about your only options.


But the fact is, you CAN build a boat cheaper than buying one new. (Remember you get a NEW boat, not one several years old)

It seems ridiculous to me to read people saying you can't do this when I've done it, and many of my friends have done it.
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Old 13-05-2016, 17:34   #53
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Re: Boatbuilding a multihull, budgets, paradigms, utter falsehood

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It probably varies with location. In Australia there are many home built cats, their designers are pretty well known and respected, and home builds are not as feared as they may be in other places.

It's pretty well understood that if you want a boat that sails well at a reasonable price, either buying a home built or building one are about your only options.


But the fact is, you CAN build a boat cheaper than buying one new. (Remember you get a NEW boat, not one several years old)

It seems ridiculous to me to read people saying you can't do this when I've done it, and many of my friends have done it.
My comments are about the UK and its own problems: space, weather.
Personally, I could have bought four 31 ft boats with what I have spent on mine, but then my building programmes have been fractured by my own other work and problems with renting space in the sort of expensive places (ie you cannot buy the freehold unless you are seriously rich) where people can afford to pay me properly for the work I do, and I wouldn't have liked anyone elses' boat.

All I want to say is this: you live in the UK? Don't build a big boat in epoxy unless you have a suitable fullsize heated shed you don't pay rent for. Simple!
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