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Old 06-03-2016, 01:25   #1
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Boat trim

Boat was unusually fast, or maybe speedo crazy, but definitely more water noise than usual on this weekend 40nm trip. I did overtake larger than normal % share of boats, so wasnt dreaming.

One thing I have done is balance hulls as marine asked me to do that before putting boat on dry for new antifoul. Stern was more in water before, now everything straight.

Any experience, is this important for cats or I had glass too many this weekend ?
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:04   #2
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Re: Boat trim

Look at any racing video or talk to any racing skip. See where they put crew and materials in and on the boat. Boat trim makes a difference, it doesn't matter what kind of boat.
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Old 06-03-2016, 02:34   #3
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Re: Boat trim

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Look at any racing video or talk to any racing skip. See where they put crew and materials in and on the boat. Boat trim makes a difference, it doesn't matter what kind of boat.
you have point here. Had strong currents including eddies and speedo out of action, so numbers worthless, behaviour of water and sound were only true measures. And definitely noisier and water on bow getting higher than normal, in pretty low app wind numbers.

Boat felt runny...

Hu, I really managed to gain couple of 0.1 kn's of speed in any direction
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Old 06-03-2016, 04:54   #4
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Re: Boat trim

If I fill fuel tank (weight aft), I find filling the water tanks (weight forward) at the same time provides significant better performance.
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Old 06-03-2016, 05:26   #5
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Re: Boat trim

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Look at any racing video or talk to any racing skip. See where they put crew and materials in and on the boat. Boat trim makes a difference, it doesn't matter what kind of boat.
Yes Sir, trim AKA proper weight placement makes a Huge difference in both boat; speed, & motion. Especially when it's light.
And you can steer most any boat which has it's sails well trimmed, by using weight placement alone. And showing folks this when I'm teaching (formally, & otherwise) definitely makes a few jaws drop.
Particularly when, I'll tie off the rudder on centerline, & then move weight (bodies) around to show'em that a boat can even be steered this way. And then I'll make them figure out how to steer a boat this way, sans instruction.

It's a good tool, & Definitely helps people in developing a better sense of feel for the boat. Especially where as they learn how to sense much better, when the boat is out of tune, why, & the various options available to correct it.
And it's also why IMOCA (OPEN) 60's (amongst others) have fore & aft water ballast tanks, as well as the standard ones on the boat's hull sides, for increasing righting moment.

So then, if you think about weight placement from a different angle. If you have much weight in the wrong place, onboard, then you're causing excess drag, & improper trim for that boat. As well as having to compensate for the weight imbalances (boat trim), via using the rudder.
Which, any & everytime you use the helm, it's acting as a "brake" to some degree. As there's a big drag component to steering, in addition to the lift which the rudder generates.

Done right, balancing out the boat can give you easily 1/4 - 1/2kt of boatspeed, especially when it's light. And decent gains when there's a breeze too. In addition to increasing the comfort levels on the boat, when done right.
Plus, it lowers the need for sail trimming, which keeps the boat powered up better, etc., etc.
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Old 06-03-2016, 14:40   #6
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Re: Boat trim

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
Boat was unusually fast, or maybe speedo crazy, but definitely more water noise than usual on this weekend 40nm trip. I did overtake larger than normal % share of boats, so wasnt dreaming.

One thing I have done is balance hulls as marine asked me to do that before putting boat on dry for new antifoul. Stern was more in water before, now everything straight.

Any experience, is this important for cats or I had glass too many this weekend ?
Trim is really important, weight placement can affect things dramatically, but the new antifoul might have something to do with it?

Uncivilized's post above is spot on, I also taught new owners how to steer a cat with sail trim. Ari Vatenen (*) once said that the key to going quick is to not brake. As Mr Uncivilized said, using the rudder is like applying the brakes.

* Rally Driver - see his exploits here
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Old 06-03-2016, 15:18   #7
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Re: Boat trim

I don't believe you. I think that you should take me out sailing so I can see this for myself and report back to the forum objectively...

I'll bring beer
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Old 07-03-2016, 03:03   #8
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Re: Boat trim

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Trim is really important, weight placement can affect things dramatically, but the new antifoul might have something to do with it?

Uncivilized's post above is spot on, I also taught new owners how to steer a cat with sail trim. Ari Vatenen (*) once said that the key to going quick is to not brake. As Mr Uncivilized said, using the rudder is like applying the brakes.

* Rally Driver - see his exploits here
thanks, see your point, will practice what you say and see how it goes.

Boat is still waiting for place in marina so antifoul still old and not the reason.
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Old 07-03-2016, 03:06   #9
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Re: Boat trim

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I don't believe you. I think that you should take me out sailing so I can see this for myself and report back to the forum objectively...

I'll bring beer
yeah, one day, when I get schioning, when get sick of fat & slow cat.
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:50   #10
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Re: Boat trim

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yeah, one day, when I get schioning, when get sick of fat & slow cat.
I hope you dont think I was criticising your boat? Is my angling for a sail on a multi not transparent enough?

I can bring rum instead of beer?

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Old 07-03-2016, 14:26   #11
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Re: Boat trim

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Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
I hope you dont think I was criticising your boat? Is my angling for a sail on a multi not transparent enough?

I can bring rum instead of beer?

Sent from my SM-T520 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
that is lovely, however going rate in sydney for this type of boat is around $600 ph, min 4 hours.
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Old 07-03-2016, 14:43   #12
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Re: Boat trim

tp12,
I like Havana Club - 12 year.
Let me know when your in the Dodecanese :-)
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:12   #13
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Re: Boat trim

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that is lovely, however going rate in sydney for this type of boat is around $600 ph, min 4 hours.
Umm, ok. It was meant as light hearted, I'm sorry if you took it any other way.
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Old 07-03-2016, 15:14   #14
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Re: Boat trim

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tp12,
I like Havana Club - 12 year.
Let me know when your in the Dodecanese :-)
Havana Club it is. Although I need a nostalgia trip while I'm there so will have a bottle of 7 star Metaxa as well. I'm sure we'll make do

I'm booked up now and collect the boat from Rhodes Sept 10.

Wooooohooooooo!
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