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Old 14-01-2012, 16:07   #46
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Re: Boat Too Big

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Originally Posted by catabroker View Post
As for 'tacking', the Manta 40' does not tack very well. In fact, you cannot tack the Manta in less than 12 knots of wind under main sail alone. Back in 2004 / 2005, when the Manta 42 Mark IV was one of the Cruising World or Sail Magazine's 'boat of the year contenders', the judges chose the Leopard 40' as Boat of the Year because it was the only cruising cat in the 40' range that could tack under main sail alone in light air.

Regards, Peter
Have you ever sailed one? By your description, I suspect not. First, I don't know why you would be sailing upwind with only the mainsail. Second, how in the world does the choice of "the only cruising cat...that could tack under main alone in light air" get twisted into meaning that all of those who couldn't (under questionable skillsets) do not tack very well? And stated as a "fact"?

Your Sail/CW story can be countered by Charles Kanter's book, where he says he the Manta was the only catamaran he has sailed that tacked about under main alone like a dinghy.

I can promise you it will tack that way unless the sea state is large and the wind low, where all boats will struggle. With all sails, it tacks excellently - easier than most boats - particularly since all you have to do is turn the wheel (self-tacking jib). I have been on monos and cats that need engines to tack, and I would put the Manta in the top of the fixed keeled catamarans in ability to tack (it is a LeRouge design). Your story about the boat of the year is odd, since Manta won that award in 2001 or 2002 and the boat wasn't changed in the interim. By 2005, it was an established design and wouldn't be expected to be in the running for that type of award. The Leopard 40 was a new boat that year.

Good god, I sound like one of those rabid defender's of one's boat. I don't mean to, but your post was so badly composed with "facts", definitives and blanket statements, and ill-informed, that I was compelled to write this.

Mark
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:17   #47
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Re: Boat Too Big

I think you are entitled to bring some accuracy to the discussion Mark.
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Old 14-01-2012, 16:42   #48
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Re: Boat Too Big

I have received several PMs in the last few hours that I want to address. The general sentiment is that because of my screen name they seem to think that I want to be in charge on the boat. My favorite is the one who referred to me as the "typical insecure male". I think I have made it very clear in all of my posts that my wife is the expert and I have no issue with that. But to comfort those that think they are experts in everything my screen name is based solely upon my current rank in the Army. I am an O-3 or a Captain. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most everyone on here has been very helpful and I really do appreciate it. I just get so irritated by those who are self proclaimed experts on everything.
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Old 14-01-2012, 17:22   #49
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Re: Boat Too Big

Look at more than the Mahe - its galley is minimalist if you are cruising or overnighting a lot. Some good 38-40 ft cats about which will be easily managed when set-up for short handing. Take a weeks charter on a cat this size. Skip the lake and monos - you already know what you don't like and why. You will enjoy cats though.....
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Old 14-01-2012, 17:25   #50
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CPTRice,I go by the 80/20 rule on a forum. There are 80% good helpful folks and 20% trolls, antagonists or just plain jerks. This rule applies to any large group of people. Focus on the 80 and ignore the 20. Personally I commend you for being willing to learn and going the extra mile for your wife. That's the way it should be in my opinion. That is how it started here and now both are invested and love sailing. Btw thanks for your service. SC
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Old 15-01-2012, 03:56   #51
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Re: Boat Too Big

I would like to help on 2 points from personal experience. We have had 6 multihulls sailing the English Channel, West France and now Croatia.

On the point of mono vs cat sailing we have been directly involved in converting 2 reluctant mono sailors to enthusiastic cat sailors. In both cases we took the couple out sailing for day and weekend and the fear of heeling in one case and the inability to go below without being sick on the other were removed. Obviously the lack of heel is a big factor but also when below on all our cats you still have a good view outside and importantly of the horizon which helps. Both couples went out and bought cats and are still happy with the choice. It may be that CPTrice's partner is prepared to compromise her boat choice to get him afloat, in which case the single handing problem goes away!

If that fails, handling a big cat single handed is perfectly possible, provided you take care setting up the system to do so - while at sea. Most boats as standard are not easy to single hand but its generally fairly easy to improve things.A reliable autopilot and anchor windlass is a must. 2 part main halyards with roller mast cars make life easier. The problems arise when near shore, berthing alongside, stern to mooring and anchoring and particularly up anchor in a confined space with a bit of wind or sea. I can sail our FP Athena and have sailed all our other boats single handed at sea but at close quarters you often need help. Ellen McArthur is no gorilla but she managed a 80 ft tri - but didn't berth it alone.
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Old 15-01-2012, 05:45   #52
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Re: Boat Too Big

Entering into a cat versus mono and large versus smaller boat discussion is very dangerous but I do know a lot about spouses afraid of heeling.

She hated heeling but all our experience was aboard smaller trailerable boats or fast, light sailboats. I got her aboard a small cruising cat and found out the sharp, quick motion on some points of sail with the right wave action causes real bad sea sickness.

So I got a very heavy, slow Westerly , monohull. It sailed like a pig but had a long reputation of sailing in rough weather. Her fear of heeling went away. That may be related to the fact that it took a lot of wind to get it to heel above 15 degrees. It also had a very smooth motion in waves. No seasickness, no fear, life was good. But.. I couldn't stand up nor lay down in a bunk and stretch out, it drove me nuts. Did I mention it sailed like a pig?

We moved up to a Pearson 34 mono. It heels a bit but is big enough that it feels safer when heeled. The Pearson is the boat we are going cruising in. Many would say it is too big/small, too light, not a blue water boat but neither was the Pardey's and they sailed around the world. We're just going to go up and down the coast anyway.

The problem is your wife is trying to guess what boat will make you go with her. Having been there and bought two boats I sold at a loss before I found one that works, I would suggest what others have mentioned. Charter a 38 to 42 foot mono and a 38 to 40 foot cat. Then you will know without your wife buying a couple of boats and loosing money on them to get it right.

Having watched the big/small and mono/cat debate, I have learned one thing. The type of boat you buy is dependent on what makes you happy. There is the right boat for you and your situation and no one but you can tell you that.

If I had it all to do over, I would have directly went for a 34 to 39 foot, heavier, shallow draft boat with a lot of sail area and skipped the steps in between. Of course a boat like that I can actually buy may not be around.

General notes on personality and boat types. Former power boaters like cats. People who like comfort like cats. Racer types like light cats or light monos. Traditionalists like heavy monos. Those worried about the perfect storm like heavy monos. Those short on money like whatever they can get and that is where I fit.

Dale
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Old 15-01-2012, 08:29   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPTRice
I have received several PMs in the last few hours that I want to address. The general sentiment is that because of my screen name they seem to think that I want to be in charge on the boat. My favorite is the one who referred to me as the "typical insecure male". I think I have made it very clear in all of my posts that my wife is the expert and I have no issue with that. But to comfort those that think they are experts in everything my screen name is based solely upon my current rank in the Army. I am an O-3 or a Captain. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most everyone on here has been very helpful and I really do appreciate it. I just get so irritated by those who are self proclaimed experts on everything.
CPTRice. Welcome aboard. There are haters all over the place. The number one rule of CF is play nice. That means in public posts as well as private. If you get a PM over thenline report it with the report button. It makes this a better place in the long run.

As far as your plan is sounds great. It does sound that your wife was looking for bigger is more stable for you. The fact you are in a position to buy what you want in range of 36-46 feet is phenomenal.

My thought is don't worry about the single handing part too much unless you are an invalid. I am sure she will have you pulling ropes and eqrning your pay in no time.

I would recommend you and your spouse get aboard some of the models you are talking about. It seems strange you would just pick one without a bit of research. I am suspecting this perceived cavalier attitude about dropping anywhere from 300-700k is creating some scepticism about whether you are for real or not.

Good luck and cheers. Keep us posted.
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Old 15-01-2012, 09:02   #54
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Re: Boat Too Big

Good luck in your search, CPTRice. I taught advance tactics in the F-18 community for many years, and we had a saying... "Hamburger in any package is still hamburger". In other words, if your wife is a cautious, responsible sailor, those cats that you mentioned are not too big for coastal cruising, such as the east coast and Bahamas. If she is not, then any boat she takes on this type of adventure will be an issue.

I find it hard to believe that once you get aboard one of those beautiful catamarans in a perfect cove somewhere with a cocktail in your hand after a great day of sailing, snorkeling and fishing, that you will still not enjoy this wonderful way of life. Enjoy the journey - Hog
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Old 15-01-2012, 11:43   #55
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Re: Boat Too Big

I now see where it could be construed that I have a cavalier attitude abour buying the boat. It seems that I have given the impression that we just woke up one morning and decided to buy a boat and picked one out by pictures on the internet. This is my fault. We have been in the market for months now. My wife has taken numerous trips to look at different style boats and narrowed her choices down. I had not gone along with her partly due to me not having a ton of flexibility in my schedule but mostly because I felt I had nothing to add to the process. Before I got on here I knew nothing about sail boat, now I know enough to be really dangerous. She is still the expert and I will defer to her rapidly. My OP was due to some concerns that were based upon a complete lack of knowledge of what it takes to operate a boat in the ocean. The ultimate goal is getting her the boat of her dreams and maybe, just maybe I will come to enjoy it as well,
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Old 15-01-2012, 13:01   #56
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Re: Boat Too Big

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I just called the wife. We are actually going a little smaller. She was in fact going that big in a desperate attempt to get me aboard. We are going to go with what she really wanted all along. She wants a Fountaine Pajot Mahe 36. She will be back in SC next week and we will get started.
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CPTRice,

Point your wife here for all the FP Mahe 36 research info you will need.

Fountaine Pajot - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

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Old 15-01-2012, 13:59   #57
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Re: Boat Too Big

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Entering into a cat versus mono and large versus smaller boat discussion is very dangerous....

General notes on personality and boat types. Former power boaters like cats. People who like comfort like cats. Racer types like light cats or light monos. Traditionalists like heavy monos. Those worried about the perfect storm like heavy monos. Those short on money like whatever they can get and that is where I fit.

Dale
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Old 15-01-2012, 14:43   #58
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Re: Boat Too Big

CPTrice, Cats are easy. Just go for it. Have you read the Bufuzzles blog? Start at the beginning.
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Old 15-01-2012, 15:44   #59
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CPTrice, Cats are easy. Just go for it. Have you read the Bufuzzles blog? Start at the beginning.
Here is a link in case you have no idea who the Bumfuzzles are.

http://www.bumfuzzle.com/index.html
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Old 16-01-2012, 17:53   #60
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Re: Boat Too Big

A good mate of ours recently set a record for doing a solo, non-stop circumnavigation of Australia on a 46 foot cat. He also holds the record for solo Trans Tasman crossing on same cat. Many moons ago my husband and I told him he was mad to build himself this catamaran. Now we own our own cat. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you, or in this case your wife has a dream then, just give it a go. It is amazing what can be achieved if you really put your mind to it. Good luck and best wishes to you both.

Cheers
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