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Old 22-04-2014, 00:47   #1
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Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Good day all;
I have been searching for boat-plans online and checked out the most popular ones for a few months now.
I am looking to build a long-range / blue-water motorsailing-cat, or possibly even a trawler-cat with the help of a friend, who has already done such a project once.
Doing another search I just stumbled upon a site that I have not seen yet. universalboatplans.com
The designs look very trendy and the prices are much better than anything I have seen so far.
I am not sure should i start looking at the RB-34 or start a bit bigger with an RB-38. My first boat......Would a online-designer adjust plans to my liking?
Anybody has built a boat with them yet? Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Regards to all. Norwayben
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Old 22-04-2014, 01:54   #2
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Quote:
Originally Posted by norwayben View Post
Good day all;
I have been searching for boat-plans online and checked out the most popular ones for a few months now.
I am looking to build a long-range / blue-water motorsailing-cat, or possibly even a trawler-cat with the help of a friend, who has already done such a project once.
Doing another search I just stumbled upon a site that I have not seen yet. universalboatplans.com
The designs look very trendy and the prices are much better than anything I have seen so far.
I am not sure should i start looking at the RB-34 or start a bit bigger with an RB-38. My first boat......Would a online-designer adjust plans to my liking?
Anybody has built a boat with them yet? Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Regards to all. Norwayben
@Norwayben: Hope you're well ? ? OK; I served to that site (home) and then I did some serious googling, because the prices quoted on that site appeared to me to be "too good to be true" - and you know what they say about that, right ? Never forget: "Google-Before-You-Leap"
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Old 22-04-2014, 02:48   #3
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

It's a big, expensive project. The plans are probably not a place to be trying to save money.
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Old 22-04-2014, 03:11   #4
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

A design for a(ny) blue water cat would cost a bundle. Designers generally do not part from their intellectual property ever so lightly.

You better buy one on the market, pre-owned or not. Building a cat is more costly than building a mono-hull, so think before beginning.
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Old 22-04-2014, 05:23   #5
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

I looked at the site, but didn't see the prices for plans.

I agree with 44C. Buy plans from a reputable designer. Saving a few dollars on plans can cost you a lot of money in the long run.

However: My plans, from Kurt Hughes, cost under $4000 US. Plans for a 49 foot Schionning catamaran are over $12000 US.

The support from Kurt Hughes has been great.

I contacted Schionning several times, before buying my plans, regards purchasing plans or a kit. Their responses to my emails were sporadic, and I hadn't even given them any money yet. I figured, once I gave them my money, they'd have even less reason to answer my mail.

Study the plans carefully before buying; know what you're getting. I found full size templates for the bulkheads and hull stations to be a valuable asset.

I'd also suggest you look at the available kits, and see if they suit.

44C's kit is no longer available, but if it were, I'd go that route. Orams are the best bang for the buck I've seen so far.

Just my personal opinion.

Paul.

ADDENDUM: Ok, I found the prices, and $500 for a set of plans... well, they have to have been pirated, if they're really a set of plans at all. I wouldn't give him my money.
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Old 22-04-2014, 05:42   #6
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

The cost of plans is a tiny fraction of the total cost to get your boat in the water. You do not only need plans, you need a whole bunch of other stuff as well - strong and reliable support, laminating specs, reworks when changes needs to be done, etc. You need a designer with a solid reputation on your side. Do not take any shortcuts - neither should you do it on the cheap. Cheap prices means cheap everything else. The prices for yacht plans on that website is simply stupid and there is something wrong here.

I have no affiliations but have dealt with; Kurt Hughes, Alexander Simonis and Morelli & Melvin. I strongly recommend all three of these yacht designers.
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Old 22-04-2014, 05:45   #7
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Try this web site you might be be surprised www.liggarddesign.com
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Old 22-04-2014, 10:37   #8
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

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Originally Posted by beneteau-500 View Post
Try this web site you might be be surprised www.liggarddesign.com
The link you provided is incorrect.
Here is the correct link: Yacht design & boat plans by Lidgard Yacht Design Monohull and Multihull
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Old 22-04-2014, 11:36   #9
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Quote:
Originally Posted by svquintana View Post
I looked at the site, but didn't see the prices for plans.

I agree with 44C. Buy plans from a reputable designer. Saving a few dollars on plans can cost you a lot of money in the long run.

However: My plans, from Kurt Hughes, cost under $4000 US. Plans for a 49 foot Schionning catamaran are over $12000 US.

The support from Kurt Hughes has been great.

I contacted Schionning several times, before buying my plans, regards purchasing plans or a kit. Their responses to my emails were sporadic, and I hadn't even given them any money yet. I figured, once I gave them my money, they'd have even less reason to answer my mail.

Study the plans carefully before buying; know what you're getting. I found full size templates for the bulkheads and hull stations to be a valuable asset.

I'd also suggest you look at the available kits, and see if they suit.

44C's kit is no longer available, but if it were, I'd go that route. Orams are the best bang for the buck I've seen so far.

Just my personal opinion.

Paul.

ADDENDUM: Ok, I found the prices, and $500 for a set of plans... well, they have to have been pirated, if they're really a set of plans at all. I wouldn't give him my money.
Glad you have had good experience with Kurt, thou another bloke didn't. Instead he (Catbuilder) was asking all the questions concerning the build on another boat related forum.
Shionning plans IMHO are more self explanatory, so in the end you get what you pay for..
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Old 22-04-2014, 12:27   #10
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

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Originally Posted by CanadaSail View Post
@Norwayben: Hope you're well ? ? OK; I served to that site (home) and then I did some serious googling, because the prices quoted on that site appeared to me to be "too good to be true" never forget: "Google-Before-You-Leap"
Awesome first post CanadaSail! Welcome to CF.
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Old 22-04-2014, 16:58   #11
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Like many things in life you get what you pay for. Building a boat of this size and complexity without a complete set of plans is just begging to wind up with a boat shapped object instead of a boat.

I do have to ask, why are you planning to build? A boat of this size is a huge undertaking and almost all of the projects this size that are home built never get completed. It is also a poor way to save money. If you loved building boats I understand (I have built a few), but they always cost more to build than a similar used boat and often more than a similar new boat.
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Old 22-04-2014, 17:13   #12
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

I'm sure you didn't mean to say "A boat of this size is a huge undertaking and almost all of the projects this size that are home built never get completed."

I'd love to see where you get your information from.

Perhaps you meant to say, "many of the projects this size...never get completed". That's true. Then again, many humans get cancer and die young. That doesn't mean we should just give up and roll over.

There are millions of reasons people build boats, you should know if you've "built a few". If it was such a bad idea, you should have stopped after the first one.

I dare say, you're a bit of a negative nelly with that post.

Perhaps the second paragraph was a typo. After all, the first one was quite right.

Cheers.
Paul.
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Old 22-04-2014, 21:26   #13
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Not all plans are created equal. As stated by previous posters, you get what you pay for!
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Old 23-04-2014, 13:57   #14
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Paul,

No I meant almost all home built boats over 30' never get finished. I have no statistics to work from, just conversations with designers and yards who have seen project after project fail. To the point that many designers, even those who design for home build don't design large boats. It just isn't feasible for most home builders to finish a large boat.

Realistically an untrained but handy person will build 2-3lbs of boat an hour, compared to a professional yard that depending on method is running something like 6-8lbs/hr. A pretty normal 40' boat is going to run 18,000lbs. So figure 6-9,000 man hours to finish. So if you quit working, and spend 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year working it will take 3-5 years to build. But most people who try to home built can afford to quit work so the boat becomes a part time undertaking. So instead of 3-5 years it now stretches 6-10 years assuming 20 hours a week. Other the course of years plans change, kids come or leave, people get sick, ect and the boat never gets done.

The other issue is that it frankly isn't any cheaper to build than to buy and often is more expensive. Beneteau for instance gets between 50 and 60% off retail for winches and deck hardware. Build it yourself and you have to pay full price. Beneteau buys engines by the truckload you need one. Their cost per part is going to be a fraction of yours. They buy rolls of fiberglass by the ton.... It all ads up. Sure you save some in the labor cost, but the material costs are much higher for a home builder. Not to mention storage of the project for the years it takes to finish.


I know it comes across as negative, but it isn't intended to be so. I like building boats, I like making sawdust and have a pretty well fitted out wood shop. But I also fully appreciate that I have two hobbies. Sailing and boat building. I don't build boats for any reason except that I like doing so. Trying to build a boat so you can go sailing is a fools errand, it works out for a very small minority of people but they are the exception not the rule.
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Old 23-04-2014, 14:16   #15
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Re: Boat-plans online? Your experience....

Just a follow up. If you are set on building your own large cat I would highly recommend getting in touch with Richard Woods. He designs some of the better cats for home builders, and can help you out substantially more than an Internet forum.
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