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Old 15-04-2009, 21:55   #1
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Bluewater Sail Cats Under $250k?

sorry to steal from someone else..... but straight to the point a cat that is capable of of shore and can do into the 20s is what im after .i am looking at 5 years for the trip...........what would you want/suggest?
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Old 16-04-2009, 02:02   #2
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a cat that is capable of of shore and can do into the 20s is what im after .i am looking at 5 years for the trip
A fast cat capable of into the 20's and long distance cruising with all the toys and food and water are not really compatible requirements. Speed or load carrying is the normal design criteria.

If you are cruising, most people consider that the load carrying is more important. The speed is fun for a while, but becomes uncomfortable, and starts to break things. The boat is proably much more lightly built, thus needs more looking after - and may not actually be as fast as a more cruising style model over longer distances.
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Old 16-04-2009, 05:27   #3
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A fast cat capable of into the 20's and long distance cruising with all the toys and food and water are not really compatible requirements. Speed or load carrying is the normal design criteria.

snip.
I agree with Talbot -- and when you factor in your price requirement to be under 250k (assuming you don't want to have to do major re-fit of a wreck) -- it's a nice dream .

You could have the speed and load carrying in a larger boat such as the large Gunboat cats, but that would put you into the million$.

You need to trade-off between speed, load carrying, and price. Something has got to give. Your price is going to keep you in the under-40 foot size, and if you want to cruise you will load it with gear and won't be going above 10 knots very often. That's the reality.
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Old 16-04-2009, 06:08   #4
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You would be better off looking for a tri with those requirements. I would think it is near impossible to bring price, speed, your wishes for sailing abilities all together in one package. You need to be in the right place at the right time with cash in hand to find this superdeal......i2f
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Old 16-04-2009, 22:12   #5
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I'd go with something like this : 1997 Outremer 40/43 Light Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Cheers.
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Old 17-04-2009, 02:21   #6
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sorry to steal from someone else..... but straight to the point a cat that is capable of of shore and can do into the 20s is what im after .i am looking at 5 years for the trip...........what would you want/suggest?
Unfortunately you are looking for something that doesn't exist.
Everything you find on the market for 250k will either be a cruising cat which will be at best capable of half the wind speed or a stripped out oversize Hobie type cat that will do the speed but has no accommodation and is therefore not a blue-water boat.
The Outremer listed above is one of the faster cats and is probably capable of 60% wind speed but don't try and load it too much or even that performance will disappear.
You need to re-think your criteria, do you want speed or comfort as you can't have both unless you have very deep pockets.
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Old 17-04-2009, 08:26   #7
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Many cats are capable of relatively higher speeds under certain conditions, but cruisers spend a lot of time and effort slowing them down for safety and comfort. What you are asking for is a 200mph formular racer to bring the groceries home, one can at a time!

Or a 500hp motoryacht that can barely make it from one gas dock to the next....

You saw Waterworld? It was FICTION my friend!
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Old 17-04-2009, 10:56   #8
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I don't think there's any experienced cat sailor out there that would consider - a cat capable of doing something in the 20's realistic. Not that they can't do it, even I've done it in my 31' tri (surfing).

Refer to maxingout's postings, great potential speed can be a big advantage if used properly. He talks about cruising speeds in the single digits. There are tremendous stress loads created on any boat that's sailing in the 20's and those stresses are diametrically opposed to long passages.

I think Chris White's designs are a good combination of speed & cruising payload.
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Old 17-04-2009, 15:30   #9
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Thanks for the replies.Hi Islander I have looked at the Outremers and this one ticks a lot of my boxes...ie galley up,center boards,twin helm (although I would prefer wheels) access to the hulls thru the bridge.
Are there any other designs out there that I should keep an eye out for,I realise I will need to up the money but there must be some.
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Old 17-04-2009, 17:41   #10
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You could try and find an older Catana. I looked at buying a 1992 40' awhile back. When you stood back and looked at this thing, it looked like an over sized hobie cat. I do believe it could of hit some of those higher speeds your wanting as long as you did'nt load it down.
Good luck finding your boat. Let us know what you end up buying.
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Old 17-04-2009, 20:42   #11
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Should be a lot of Schionnings in your neck of the woods, but you'd probably have to go more than 250K to get one. A well built one should do a lot of what you want.

Cheers.
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Old 17-04-2009, 21:27   #12
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Outside the box? MAPPAS POD CATAMARAN boat details - BoatPoint Australia
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Old 17-04-2009, 21:43   #13
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ERIK LEROUGE AZULI F40 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

http://boatpoint.ninemsn.com.au/boat...aspx?R=2768004
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Old 19-04-2009, 11:51   #14
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I would like to elaborate on what the other posters have said.

First, here is an extract from my article "Why sail a multihull?" which appeared in the UK's Practical Boat Owner magazine a couple of years ago. (You can see the whole article by clicking on the link on the Latest News page of my website)

"Most catamarans are advertised as being ďfastĒ for many people are easily seduced by the thought of more speed. However, when cruising, speed must always be related to comfort. Just because a catamaran sails upright to windward and doesnít roll downwind, it doesnít mean you should always sail one fast.

On a monohull you tend to sail as fast as possible all the time. On a catamaran you only sail as fast as you want to go.

I often compare boats with cars: 6 knots is 60mph, 8 knots is 80; 20 knots is 200. So in reality not many cruising multihulls genuinely do 20 knots in flat water.

A monohull is like an old car; you can keep your foot on the gas all the time. In a new car itís often hard to judge how fast you are going, itís so comfortable. In practice, few people buy the fastest car; rather most want a car that is comfortable to drive and handles predictably. Even so, you quickly learn not to drive fast in traffic, in the dark or in bad weather.

Itís the same with a catamaran, where the real trick to successful catamaran sailing is to know when to slow down. Thus I prefer to cruise offshore at a 6 knot average rather than 9. Thatís because even 9 knots can be uncomfortably fast when passagemaking, mainly because you are living on board, not just out for a day sail.

Iíve found that peak speeds are about double the average speed. To average 9 knots youíll often do 18 and later youíll swear the log never read below 12.

Sheer speed is not the main reason we go sailing, for if we really wanted to get somewhere in a hurry weíd use a powerboat. Instead, what is important is to have a boat that is fun to sail. Having a responsive boat and one that will do what you want when you want it are the real differences between boats that sail well and those that donít."

Having said that, there ARE a number of designs that are in your budget (although I'm not sure if you mean NZD or USD) that can do speeds in the high teens/low 20's.

For example my 32ft Eclipse had a top speed of 21 knots when empty, but still sailed in the mid teens when fully loaded for cruising. For example, sailing 60 miles along the N coast of Puerto Rico in 6.5 hours. In racing mode we beat Mumm30 monohulls to windward, yet this boat was a live aboard cruising home for 5 years and had up to 6 adults on board for a couple of weeks at a time. By no means stripped out, solid fuel stove, water maker, big oven and freezer, 8 sails, sailing dinghy etc.

I now sail a more cruisey boat (LAR keels, smaller rig etc), my 34ft Romany, but even so we can sail in the mid teens, certainly 12 knots is no problem in flat water even when fully loaded for cruising.

So the boat you want is available, just not from the "mainstream" chartercat builders.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Richard Woods of Woods Designs

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Old 19-04-2009, 21:11   #15
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Hi all, I really like the Schoinings and the more recent Graingers they seem great.Looking at length I'm thinking at least 37 but no more than 45.I realise that I will not be doing 20 knots everywhere but would like to think with a nice breeze it should be more than capable to.Thanks for the help ,are there any others I should be keeping an eye out for?
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