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Old 03-07-2016, 22:27   #31
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

My Tether has five big beads on it, where it fits onto the chest harness clip,
It is very easy to grab hold of and pull, It releases instantly,
So my chest harness and Tether is not a problem,

As long as the Tether is not long enough to allow you to go over the side in the first place,
My Tether is six feet long, It allows me to move freely on the boat, Any where,
I can get into and out of the cockpit Tethered all the time,
If I slip at any time, I end up on the deck, The deck is very slippery in storms and rain, Even unconcious, I still stay on the deck, So drowning is not an issue,

Being overturned and getting caught up in the rigging and ropes under the boat is more of a problem, I would think,

You only have a minute and a half, Maximum, to get to the surface or into a hole that has air trapped in it, Thats if you havent taken a gulp of water on the way over,

Panic in this situation would be very intense, Your thinking would be Chaotic and Irrational,
Your boat wont leave you as it would be stationary, Half submerged,
Im one of those people who think of the worse case scenario and work back from that,

Im only a cruiser, So I dont go fast enough for any damage to occur from overloaded rigging, But if the mast did snap off, I do have a four foot set of Bolt cutters on board to cut the rigging and mast off so it would just go over the side and not damage the boat,
Keeping your boat on the surface, instead of five miles under you, Is my biggest worry,and thats my main concern in any bad event, And I am prepared for that,
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Old 04-07-2016, 00:16   #32
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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Hi, fellow catamaran cruising couples.

I'm curious, what have you developed over time as your rules for wearing PFD's, and for using tethers when doing multi-day passages? Does it change when it's just the two of you vs. having multiple people on board?

Also, have you developed a preferred watch schedule for extended passages?

I'm looking for actual cruisers who have come to their own conclusions to relate their own practices, not theoreticians laying down the Holy Writ for the rest of us, pleae!
We used tethers whenever leaving the cockpit. No crew to leave cockpit unless other crew present.

The watch system that worked best for us was basically to not have a rigid system as such. We used our strengths - I'm a morning person, early to bed early to rise, my wife is happier getting up late.

So She'd do the first half of the nights, while I slept, when she felt tired she'd wake me up. Usually around 3-4 am. Early in the evening I'd go to bed, she'd be up then.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:24   #33
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

Don't attach jack lines to your mast, a mate was dis masted due to the front crossbeam breaking, he wasn't out front but he was about to go up tethered, he said if he was tethered he would have ended up 14 feet in the air due to the line being attached to the mast, also he now carries a cordless grinder to cut off any rigging.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:03   #34
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

We attach yellow flat nylon jacklines from base of a rear hardtop support to the center of the crossbeam beside the forestay attachment plate, allows good, safe travel to the forward areas that might need to be safely reached.

Strongly agree on the use of an angle grinder with a thin kerf zipdisc to cut away "Anything" quickly! in the event of rig failures or other catastrophic events.(faster than handcutters, potentially)
Cordless is great but also have a 120 volt Ac ones as we can power them easily by an inverter or honda generator which a lot of cruising boats have that capability.

Bob
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:20   #35
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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Was there anything in my post soliciting your or "Thinwater's" opinions?


Originally Posted by AD28 View Post
To diverge somewhat...

I have just learned that Hampidjan, maker of DynIce (was Dynex) Dux, is making Dyneema-fibre WEBBING

DynIce Accessories - Hampi­jan Group



No, there wasn't anything in my post soliciting opinion.
Well, you posted on a forum, so that in itself solicits opinions.

The problem with Dyneema jacklines, specifically on a cat, is that a long stumble or fall creates enormous forces on the anchors (tight rope effect). The corollary is that 2 things must be considered for the system to be safe: the jacklines and anchors will need to be considerably stronger than the ISAF minimums, which assume some stretch (easily done), and the tether needs to have some stretch (not Dyneema). The same is true of stainless. These requirements only become apparent in a worst-case, so they are neither obvious or well known. However, these observations are based on testing and have been published.

That's all. Dyneema is neat stuff, but zero stretch is not always the best thing when there is impact in the system.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:25   #36
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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We attach yellow flat nylon jacklines from base of a rear hardtop support to the center of the crossbeam beside the forestay attachment plate, allows good, safe travel to the forward areas that might need to be safely reached.

Strongly agree on the use of an angle grinder with a thin kerf zipdisc to cut away "Anything" quickly! in the event of rig failures or other catastrophic events.(faster than handcutters, potentially)
Cordless is great but also have a 120 volt Ac ones as we can power them easily by an inverter or honda generator which a lot of cruising boats have that capability.

Bob
I'm not sure you want to run a 110v grinder while covered in salt water. That's probably a good way to get dead. Anyone who has ever worked construction has been kicked by 110v tools before.

I'm also not sure it will even work. Once seawater gets in there there will be a lot of shorts.

Finally, the GFI will trip.
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Old 04-07-2016, 09:36   #37
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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I'm not sure you want to run a 110v grinder while covered in salt water. That's probably a good way to get dead. Anyone who has ever worked construction has been kicked by 110v tools before.

I'm also not sure it will even work. Once seawater gets in there there will be a lot of shorts.

Finally, the GFI will trip.
Rubber gloves if needed,
not always going to be a "saltwater every where event"
and you can easily shield a grinder from spray
and I am familiar with being "kicked"
I think the ease of use with some care would far outweigh what you suggest could happen.

Bob
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:45   #38
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

I think you would be in high seas and very bad weather to lose a mast,
In those conditions I would not be using any thing electrical on deck,
The chance of being electrocuted is only adding to your risks,
Plus the chance of sparks from the grinder creating a fire below decks is very real, or in the sails themselves, They burn very readily,
On site welder for fifty years, i have been on fire many times from grinders and welding sparks,
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:20   #39
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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I think you would be in high seas and very bad weather to lose a mast,
In those conditions I would not be using any thing electrical on deck,
The chance of being electrocuted is only adding to your risks,
Plus the chance of sparks from the grinder creating a fire below decks is very real, or in the sails themselves, They burn very readily,
On site welder for fifty years, i have been on fire many times from grinders and welding sparks,
Mr B, People lose rigs or have catastrophic failures in all kinds of weather, conditions...
If you are in "high seas and very bad weather" or "take a baby for a stroll weather" you will use "ANY" and all means available to secure your ship and safety.
If you cannot use or have confidence in using "any thing electrical on deck" , then don't...

"the chance of sparks from the grinder creating a fire below decks is very real"
I am baffled how those sparks would get inside from outside on a modern cruising boat?...

I have used power tools/welders and spark flying grinders all my life and you can shower sparks on all manner of "DRY" combustible materials before they "might" show a hint of igniting. Now that is my experience ... maybe not yours.

If you want to get electrocuted , you can probably make that happen...
If you want to sail far offshore without prep or safety / if you want to cross streets with your eyes closed... and probably make yourself dead... you can make that happen as well

I offered up my opinion on grinders/zip blades as an effective tool in ones potential Cruising arsenal but I certainly respect yours and Thinwaters' and maybe everyone elses? reservations on this.

Bob
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Old 04-07-2016, 13:30   #40
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

If in heavy weather and big seas I think the focus would be on ditching the rig as quickly as possible before it does catastrophic damage to the boat. I believe at that point the thought of electrocution or sparks catching the boat on fire probably wouldn't enter your mind.


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Old 04-07-2016, 14:57   #41
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

Rather than planning to cut the shrouds, (Unless they're dyneema) wouldn't it be much easier and quicker to remove the pins from the toggles? A pair of pliers and a hammer would have it done in moments.
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Old 04-07-2016, 15:51   #42
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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Rather than planning to cut the shrouds, (Unless they're dyneema) wouldn't it be much easier and quicker to remove the pins from the toggles? A pair of pliers and a hammer would have it done in moments.

I'm guessing for the slack stays and shrouds this would be possible, but maybe not for the wires that are taking the load of the mast?


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Old 04-07-2016, 17:20   #43
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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Mr B, People lose rigs or have catastrophic failures in all kinds of weather, conditions...
If you are in "high seas and very bad weather" or "take a baby for a stroll weather" you will use "ANY" and all means available to secure your ship and safety.
If you cannot use or have confidence in using "any thing electrical on deck" , then don't...

"the chance of sparks from the grinder creating a fire below decks is very real"
I am baffled how those sparks would get inside from outside on a modern cruising boat?...

I have used power tools/welders and spark flying grinders all my life and you can shower sparks on all manner of "DRY" combustible materials before they "might" show a hint of igniting. Now that is my experience ... maybe not yours.

If you want to get electrocuted , you can probably make that happen...
If you want to sail far offshore without prep or safety / if you want to cross streets with your eyes closed... and probably make yourself dead... you can make that happen as well

I offered up my opinion on grinders/zip blades as an effective tool in ones potential Cruising arsenal but I certainly respect yours and Thinwaters' and maybe everyone elses? reservations on this.

Bob
I do get your point, it would be URGENT.My concern is that with GFI and salt this plan may simply not work. It will trip. A little rain I wouldn't be too worried. I you say, I've done that before. A rechargeable would be great, but I too prefer a nice powerful corded grinder.
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Old 04-07-2016, 18:03   #44
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

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I do get your point, it would be URGENT.My concern is that with GFI and salt this plan may simply not work. It will trip. A little rain I wouldn't be too worried. I you say, I've done that before. A rechargeable would be great, but I too prefer a nice powerful corded grinder.

I guess all GFI's aren't created equal as I've operated a drill plugged into a GFI that would get the occasional saltwater bath and the GFI never tripped!


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Old 04-07-2016, 20:26   #45
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Re: Bluewater Cats: Your rules for going forward?

Synthetics! Cut it.
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