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Old 26-02-2012, 11:12   #181
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
For the most part, there are only four things you can do to greatly improve the upwind performance of cats beyond making them super light, lean and long:
  • You can reduce weight aloft by purchasing a carbon fiber mast and light, high-tech shrouds, as this not only provides a lighter and stiffer rig, but reduces the fore and aft pitching moment that so inhibits upwind performance in catamarans.
  • You can purchase a very costly, custom, fully rotating rig that enables you to rotate the mast directly into the eye of the apparent wind when sailing close hauled or reaching.
  • You can upgrade your sails from Dacron to some sort of Mylar or Kevlar product that allows your sailmaker to create a much stiffer sail that will not distort under the heavy loads a catamaran is subjected to while sailing upwind.
  • You purchase a catamaran with daggerboards.
OK I may be bragging... BUT ....
Tomahawk has all of these... except the high tech standing rig..

The thing is that I didn't have her built. I was very lucky to come across her.. here in the UK ... She is everything I could ever want in a boat
Go ahead .... Brag, Outremer is a great CAT. If the budget allowed, we would certainly love to have one. ENJOY!

Darby
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Old 26-02-2012, 13:11   #182
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

These days it appears as though very few cruisers actually sail to windward in catamarans. Most don't enjoy it. Its uncomfortable. Its slow. its frustrating. With most modern cats fitted with a couple of diesels it appears as though most increase there windward performance by cranking up the thumpers.

Here is a blog entry I found from Seawinds current poster boy on getting a Seawind to windward. Quite a struggle it appears.

There's probably something in this article for the OP to consider.
Day 289 - VMG upwind to the Tamar River

regards
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Old 26-02-2012, 17:06   #183
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

I wonder how that itty bitty Outremer would do against that big-assed Sundeer. That would be a good race me thinks. I volunteer as crew on either one.
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Old 26-02-2012, 17:13   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
I wonder how that itty bitty Outremer would do against that big-assed Sundeer. That would be a good race me thinks. I volunteer as crew on either one.
I hate to say it in public being a die hard multihuller but damn that Sundeer is nice. Ok I said it and it didnt hurt that bad. Now that I think about it, if I could afford a used Sundeer I could afford the new Outremer 49! Back On track!!!!
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Old 26-02-2012, 21:33   #185
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Just got expect Nick to come back now with all the comments on Sundeers.
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Old 26-02-2012, 21:35   #186
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

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Originally Posted by catty View Post
These days it appears as though very few cruisers actually sail to windward in catamarans. Most don't enjoy it. Its uncomfortable. Its slow. its frustrating. With most modern cats fitted with a couple of diesels it appears as though most increase there windward performance by cranking up the thumpers.

Here is a blog entry I found from Seawinds current poster boy on getting a Seawind to windward. Quite a struggle it appears.

There's probably something in this article for the OP to consider.
Day 289 - VMG upwind to the Tamar River

regards
Yes. It was a link referenced by poster Highland Fling.
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Old 26-02-2012, 21:43   #187
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

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Yes. It was a link referenced by poster Highland Fling.
Yes, but not very observant. Now look at the time I posted the link , and compare it to the time Highland fling posted the link, and then you will see where Mr Fling got the idea.

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Old 26-02-2012, 22:01   #188
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

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Yes, but not very observant. Now look at the time I posted the link , and compare it to the time Highland fling posted the link, and then you will see where Mr Fling got the idea.

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Old 27-02-2012, 00:49   #189
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Is that my itty bitty Outremer you are talking about? If so can you tell me where to find Sundeer before l take up the offer?
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Old 27-02-2012, 06:30   #190
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Those Seawind 1000 sailors must be newbies or overloaded. I routinely outrun monohulls that are 40' plus in mine. Also outpoint and outrun a lighter Maine Cat in the neighborhood. FYI, mine is reluctantly for sale and in your price range. Nearly all new electronics including Raymarine Autohelm, Lorance HDS7 chartplotter that can upgrade to broadband (RF) radar and HD sidescanning sonar, AIS DSC VHF radio that overlay plots on the chartplotter and new iPhone compatible 240 W stereo plus a new Mack Pack, bbq, halyards and a new hypalon dinghy and LP gas Lehr 2.5 HP dinghy motor that just made a splash at the boat show">Miami Boat Show. She is ready for some serious cruising. 1999 Seawind 1000 - Boats.com
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Old 27-02-2012, 06:55   #191
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

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Is that my itty bitty Outremer you are talking about? If so can you tell me where to find Sundeer before l take up the offer?
S/V Jedi is posting about the merits of his Sundeer 64 in this other similar thread.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-76395-14.html
He's on the last page there and others. That Sundeer is badass and about as fast as any cruising mono made. I would like to see a race between you and him. Just for fun.
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Old 28-02-2012, 12:23   #192
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catty View Post
These days it appears as though very few cruisers actually sail to windward in catamarans.
There's probably something in this article for the OP to consider.
Day 289 - VMG upwind to the Tamar River

regards

Or in monohulls either eh?

Quote:
In fact, we noticed coming down the west coast that we were more than competitive with the monohulls when going to windward, as many of the cruising monos also used an engine going to windward,
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Old 28-02-2012, 15:47   #193
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
S/V Jedi is posting about the merits of his Sundeer 64 in this other similar thread.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-76395-14.html
He's on the last page there and others. That Sundeer is badass and about as fast as any cruising mono made. I would like to see a race between you and him. Just for fun.
Well its certainly faster than an Open 60, Hugo Boss was 5th over the line in this years hobart, and Nicks published speeds would have him finishing in front of Hugo Boss.

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Hugo Boss
Hugo Boss is a majestic monochrome 60ft yacht – the most powerful in her class. Since completing the Barcelona World Race earlier this year, the boat has competed in the Giraglia Rolex Cup, the Rolex Fastnet Race and the Artemis Challenge. Under a previous name, Pindar, she finished fifth in the last Vendée Globe, with British sailor Brian Thompson at the helm. Alex Thomson and Guillermo Altadill have been sailing together since June this year, and sailed the double-handed Transat Jacques Vabre race together across the Atlantic from Le Havre, France to Costa Rica in November, coming 2nd in class.
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Old 25-02-2021, 03:32   #194
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Re: Best Upwind, Blue Water Cat?

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Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Well, the concept you describe is VMG. And VMG is a balance.

You can, for instance, drive off a few degrees, and if your speed increases by a certain amount, even though you go farther, you can still be ahead of the game because you go faster.

One of the differences between multihull and monohull tactics is this very concept. Monohulls tend to pinch and cover less ground because they can't go fast enough to afford the extra distance. The expression is 'banging the corner,' and it's not done. On the other hand, multihulls bang the corners all the time, but it's a trick to know just how far off you can go.

That is to say, 'if I drive off x degrees, I need to go y faster or it's not worth it.' X and Y depend on the particular boat in question, and the conditions one is sailing in, etcetera.

Hope this helps
t.
No, sorry.

'Banging the corner' is a racing concept where you simply go right out to either side of the course to the layline and then tack/gybe, accomplishing the whole leg with the fewest possible manoeuvres, hence 'the corner'. It has nothing to do with VMG or angles, although where the the layline sits is a function of your specific upwind/downind angle.

The assumption when racing is that you're sailing the best VMG for your boat, sea state and wind strength, VMG will change with changes in all of those and therefore so will the layline.

It may or may not be the correct option in any given race as a function of wind shifts, currents, competitors and the amount of distance you lose in the manoeuvre (itself a function of boat, windstrength and technique).
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Old 25-02-2021, 08:20   #195
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Re: Best Upwind , Blue Water Cat ?

Mark, you've resurrected a 9yo thread.
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