Best Offshore Cat Builder/Models with decent interiors

[Jimmyhenry]

Try Ron Given. NZ. Best offshore cruising cat across his whole range.

[RELENTLESS 1]

Capdave
I appreciate the feedback. Yes it is a bit of the compromise as the cabinets are sandwich honeycomb to save weight - we were on a 4 year old boat of a family with 3 boys - and tons of friends and they hold up well. Yes the market, availability, economics etc. can all have an effect - Boats after all are not 'investments' for returns but investments for memories. We will likely have this until we can't sail anymore. We looked at a couple of Privileges - wow - gorgeous and friends own an Antares - ditto - but when it came down to the way we like to sail - fast = fun - and that we will end up in CA with its light winds, and we will not be full time living on the boat - this was the best fit for us. We were on a sister boat last week in SoCa ripples on the water barely registering 6-6.5Kts TWS and my wife - a phenomenal driver - was steering with the 'tiller' doing 5 Kts with the biggest smile on her face I have ever seen - yeah, this works.

[woc]

Originally Posted by DavidJH

My family and I are considering buying a Catamaran in the future with the idea of eventually crossing to the south pacific. Many of the production cats I'm seeing now seem to be geared towards coastal sailing with their windage and tankage, and I was wanting recommendations on models that would fit. I've seen many "Offshore" cats which are simply not livable enough to ever convince my wife. We'd be sailing with our two children as well, so it would need enough storage for four, ideally not requiring a water-maker to not run out of water. I like the look of the new Lagoons, and I have heard many people crossing with them, but their highly raised center or effort on the sails and in many models low tankage make me nervous. Any recommendations out there?

I am going around the world in my Lagoon450, Owner version ( 3 cabins) started out in Florida and presently crossing the Indian Ocean. Rest assured, I am not into camping and am doing it with every comfort and safety. For this type of cruising with family a watermaker is a “ must have” . 50 liter an hour DC operated normally does the trick. Storage is another consideration. Consider one cabin needed for storage of the things that make life comfortable and for keeping spares. My next Lagoon will be the new Lagoon 50.
There are many good catamarans out there theses days to choose from and I see more circumnavigate. Whatever you decide on, do your homework on how to outfit for long term cruising. None coming out of the factory are sufficiently prepared.
Good luck

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by woc

I am going around the world in my Lagoon450, Owner version ( 3 cabins) started out in Florida and presently crossing the Indian Ocean. Rest assured, I am not into camping and am doing it with every comfort and safety. For this type of cruising with family a watermaker is a “ must have” . 50 liter an hour DC operated normally does the trick. Storage is another consideration. Consider one cabin needed for storage of the things that make life comfortable and for keeping spares. My next Lagoon will be the new Lagoon 50.
There are many good catamarans out there theses days to choose from and I see more circumnavigate. Whatever you decide on, do your homework on how to outfit for long term cruising. None coming out of the factory are sufficiently prepared.
Good luck

This is good to hear. I've always liked Lagoon, but I feel like many of the newer models are not designed at all with blue water sailing in mind. The 450 was one of my exceptions as it actually has fairly good tankage for its size. It also makes me nervous that they raised the center of effort in their newest line of boats.

[sailcrazy]

following.....seriously thinking of a cat

[Catarama]

Originally Posted by DavidJH

Really liking the the Seawind 1260. I had never seen it so thanks for pointing it out! Great balance of style and seaworthiness.

My family and I bare boat chartered the new 1260 in the Whitsundays (Australia) for 2 weeks in January 2018. The boat was comfortable at anchor and sailed reasonable considering no available screecher or spinnaker. I will add they are under ruddered in heavier conditions. No different to other production cats I have sailed.
What we did discover is the reduction in build quality. The main halyard had been replaced after the owners cruised on the maiden voyage from Sydney to the Whitsundays over 3 months. the spinnaker and jib halyard were also badly chafed at the entry points to the mast as there is no spooning, simply a routed slot. Galley down is certainly a good outcome on the 1260 as the traditional Seawind seemingly has a smaller bridge deck cabin, hence allowing for a substantial open lounge area.

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by Catarama

My family and I bare boat chartered the new 1260 in the Whitsundays (Australia) for 2 weeks in January 2018. The boat was comfortable at anchor and sailed reasonable considering no available screecher or spinnaker. I will add they are under ruddered in heavier conditions. No different to other production cats I have sailed.
What we did discover is the reduction in build quality. The main halyard had been replaced after the owners cruised on the maiden voyage from Sydney to the Whitsundays over 3 months. the spinnaker and jib halyard were also badly chafed at the entry points to the mast as there is no spooning, simply a routed slot. Galley down is certainly a good outcome on the 1260 as the traditional Seawind seemingly has a smaller bridge deck cabin, hence allowing for a substantial open lounge area.

Interesting... So have you sailed previous Seawind models and feel that the 1260 took a step backward in build quality? Are you saying this simply due to the routing of the halyard or were there other issues that you saw?

[Catarama]

Hi
I have been on older models only at the dock. Enough to notice a change in quality. The halyard to mast issue can of cause be rectified. One way would be the fitment of wear plates to the mast where the halyards enter. Ask around the charter operators for advice on production boats to purchase as they are working with them all year round. From my experience, they are very helpful with quality information. I will also add I am not likely to purchase a production Cat.

[Smart555]

We are family of 6 (4 kids aboard). We’re full time cruising and living aboard on our 40” catamaran Lagoon for about 8 months so far and covered about 4000 nm. Of course, Lagoon is not the best offshore cruising catamaran in the World but it’s not bad too, we’re happy with our choice.
In our opinion, there are some necessary options it’s important to have for long term cruising like enough water, fuel, energy and good electronics.
We have got 2 water tanks 158 gallons (600liter) together. This quantity of water is enough for us for 4-7 days. Also we have water makers 40gal/h. We can’t imagine how to survive without having a watermaker onboard for traveling by family.
Concerning fuel. We have two 59 gallon tanks each(440liter in all) It’s enough for about 4-5 months. It’s included the running of generator that we use normally once a week when making fresh water.
For producing electricity in addition to 9Kw generator we’ve got 4 solar panels (750 watt in all) and D400 wind generator.
We made a shot video tour on our catamaran ManaKai.
https://youtu.be/eGzDuZL3XA4
If you have more questions, we would be pleased to answer!

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Smart555

We are family of 6 (4 kids aboard). We’re full time cruising and living aboard on our 40” catamaran Lagoon for about 8 months so far and covered about 4000 nm. Of course, Lagoon is not the best offshore cruising catamaran in the World but it’s not bad too, we’re happy with our choice.
In our opinion, there are some necessary options it’s important to have for long term cruising like enough water, fuel, energy and good electronics.
We have got 2 water tanks 158 gallons (600liter) together. This quantity of water is enough for us for 4-7 days. Also we have water makers 40gal/h. We can’t imagine how to survive without having a watermaker onboard for traveling by family.
Concerning fuel. We have two 59 gallon tanks each(440liter in all) It’s enough for about 4-5 months. It’s included the running of generator that we use normally once a week when making fresh water.
For producing electricity in addition to 9Kw generator we’ve got 4 solar panels (750 watt in all) and D400 wind generator.
We made a shot video tour on our catamaran ManaKai.
https://youtu.be/eGzDuZL3XA4
If you have more questions, we would be pleased to answer!

Nice video!

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by Smart555

We are family of 6 (4 kids aboard). We’re full time cruising and living aboard on our 40” catamaran Lagoon for about 8 months so far and covered about 4000 nm. Of course, Lagoon is not the best offshore cruising catamaran in the World but it’s not bad too, we’re happy with our choice.
In our opinion, there are some necessary options it’s important to have for long term cruising like enough water, fuel, energy and good electronics.
We have got 2 water tanks 158 gallons (600liter) together. This quantity of water is enough for us for 4-7 days. Also we have water makers 40gal/h. We can’t imagine how to survive without having a watermaker onboard for traveling by family.
Concerning fuel. We have two 59 gallon tanks each(440liter in all) It’s enough for about 4-5 months. It’s included the running of generator that we use normally once a week when making fresh water.
For producing electricity in addition to 9Kw generator we’ve got 4 solar panels (750 watt in all) and D400 wind generator.
We made a shot video tour on our catamaran ManaKai.
https://youtu.be/eGzDuZL3XA4
If you have more questions, we would be pleased to answer!

Great video! Question for you: It seems like you have quite a bit of weight, especially with that much fluid storage. What sort of average speed do you normally see when making a long passage? Also, it seems like the bridge clearance isn't too high for rough seas. Have you had any issues with slapping when if rougher seas?

[DavidJH]

Found an interesting guide on what makes a good, stable cat:
https://www.atlantic-cruising.com/good-cat-bad-cat/

Now I'm am taking this with a grain of salt as it is made by a distributor who is pushing specific brands to sell, but one thing stood out to me here:

In addition a narrower hull is more easily depressed and prone to tripping in heavy seas. The same wider body hull that gives you better load carrying ability, also gives you more total stability. Of course at some point, you lose performance… Finding the balance is the key.

Assuming this is right, doesn't this mean that many of the "Performance" blue water designers such as seawind would actually have a less stable design?

They go on to take a shot at that type of design:

(By the way, you can often recognize these designs from inside because the berths will be high and spanning the bridge deck‐‐the hulls don’t have enough volume to carry 4 full size double berths! Watch out!)

Obviously they have a bit of agenda, but it would be interesting to see if anyone here disagrees with this.

[CatNewBee]

We have a heavy Lagoon 400 too, fully equipped with A/C, Generator, water maker and lots of tools and stuff, also 2 full water tanks.

We can sail 6-8kn easily, top speed was 15.8kn on broad reach on a sea with little swell and 20kn AWS, was very comfortable sailing with no slapping.

There is slapping when beating to the wind in rough sea, but any cat will experience it, if you can't stand it, heave to.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by DavidJH

Found an interesting guide on what makes a good, stable cat:
https://www.atlantic-cruising.com/good-cat-bad-cat/

Now I'm am taking this with a grain of salt as it is made by a distributor who is pushing specific brands to sell, but one thing stood out to me here:



Assuming this is right, doesn't this mean that many of the "Performance" blue water designers such as seawind would actually have a less stable design?

They go on to take a shot at that type of design:



Obviously they have a bit of agenda, but it would be interesting to see if anyone here disagrees with this.

For my 0.02c

Yes I feel this guy is manipulating reality to match his sales pitch. Like most sales pitches, an element of truth makes the story more believable.

Narrow hulls will only submerge more if the weight/volume ratio changes. A lighter cat at 7.5ton with 1m wide hulls V's a 15ton cat with 2m wide hulls. All else being equal they will submerge an equal amount for a given increase in weight these are static loads he is discussing but we are interested in the boats reactions to dynamic loads. The heavier boat will transition more smoothly but plunge deeper at the bottom of the swell and lift higher at the crest through its momentum. This applies to pitching as well as stability.

Wake from narrow hulls on a light boat will be significantly less, and further aft. Much less effect on slap.

There were other points which I didn't think stacked up in his writing and some I agree with.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by DavidJH

\
Assuming this is right, doesn't this mean that many of the "Performance" blue water designers such as seawind would actually have a less stable design?

They go on to take a shot at that type of design:

Obviously they have a bit of agenda, but it would be interesting to see if anyone here disagrees with this.

Given that not a single Seawind has gone over after the 24, I think the record speaks for itself