Best Offshore Cat Builder/Models with decent interiors

[Macblaze]

Since no one else has mentioned it, this guy (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Q..._-zWCJ6rC2Xn1Q) goes to Annapolis every year and does cat reviews.

While I definitely don't agree with his criteria, it's nice to see some tours of different cats like the Exquisite, Knysna, Balance and F.P.s

[sailjumanji]

I had a Seawind 1000 for about twelve years. Loved the layout, the build quality, twin outboard, solar, no generator, the way it sailed, and comfort cruising remote Bahamas for 2-3 month period.. Last year signed up for a Seawind 1160 Lite new build. Build finished in Dec and currently on a transport ship from Vietnam factory headed to Miami. Old Seawind sold for asking in about a month, and had a backup offer to match. Issue with Seawind: very few come on market in US. The 1260 is a brand new model. Our Lite equipped, delivered, sales tax and registration paid is going to come in right at your $450k budget. A 1260 will be much more expensive?

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I had a Seawind 1000 for about twelve years. Loved the layout, the build quality, twin outboard, solar, no generator, the way it sailed, and comfort cruising remote Bahamas for 2-3 month period.. Last year signed up for a Seawind 1160 Lite new build. Build finished in Dec and currently on a transport ship from Vietnam factory headed to Miami. Old Seawind sold for asking in about a month, and had a backup offer to match. Issue with Seawind: very few come on market in US. The 1260 is a brand new model. Our Lite equipped, delivered, sales tax and registration paid is going to come in right at your $450k budget. A 1260 will be much more expensive?

Yes, I would hope to find a 1-2 year old one when we are about to head out. My gut feeling is that they will probably have increased U.S. sales. I am seeing more to charter (and may charter one in a few months) and it just won boat of the year.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by DavidJH

Yes, I would hope to find a 1-2 year old one when we are about to head out. My gut feeling is that they will probably have increased U.S. sales. I am seeing more to charter (and may charter one in a few months) and it just won boat of the year.

I am very familiar with the model, and boarded one at the Annapolis show, as well as at the Vietnam factory in September. It is a new model, just launched in 2017. And as you said, earned BOTY award. A friend has one on the same transport as our Lite, going to Miami. Very nice boat.

But realize that Seawind is not a big-volume boat builder - nothing like the other cat manufacturers targeting the charter market. Factory is at full production level with 1160 Lite, Deluxe and Resort, 1190 Sport, 1260, and the 1600 (also released in 2017). My understanding is that Annapolis show was very successful, and delivery time is well over a year. (We started ours in January last year, took 11 months to build, and things were relatively normal back then!)

The 1160 Lite was launched in 2014. There are a few in charter in the US/Bahamas fleet. I have never seen a used Lite come on the market in the US - only in Asia, one a dealers boat in Canada, and a couple in Australia. I know some of those US/Bahama charter boat owners, and they share annual use with the charter company, and have plans to take the boats out of charter and go cruising when they retire.

I think to fit your budget, you are looking for a substantial depreciation on a 1-2 yr old (i.e., still "new") boat, that has few built, is popular (you probably won't be the only one standing with cash in hand), the long wait time for a new build, etc., - I think it's a tall order. We essentially were doing the same thing for four years re: the Lite, and just eventually signed up for a new build. I have two friends looking for deals on a Seawind 1160 Deluxe - a boat that has been in production since 2004 - and so far what they have found is high resale price, and usually only one on the market at any given time.

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by sailjumanji

I am very familiar with the model, and boarded one at the Annapolis show, as well as at the Vietnam factory in September. It is a new model, just launched in 2017. And as you said, earned BOTY award. A friend has one on the same transport as our Lite, going to Miami. Very nice boat.

But realize that Seawind is not a big-volume boat builder - nothing like the other cat manufacturers targeting the charter market. Factory is at full production level with 1160 Lite, Deluxe and Resort, 1190 Sport, 1260, and the 1600 (also released in 2017). My understanding is that Annapolis show was very successful, and delivery time is well over a year. (We started ours in January last year, took 11 months to build, and things were relatively normal back then!)

The 1160 Lite was launched in 2014. There are a few in charter in the US/Bahamas fleet. I have never seen a used Lite come on the market in the US - only in Asia, one a dealers boat in Canada, and a couple in Australia. I know some of those US/Bahama charter boat owners, and they share annual use with the charter company, and have plans to take the boats out of charter and go cruising when they retire.

I think to fit your budget, you are looking for a substantial depreciation on a 1-2 yr old (i.e., still "new") boat, that has few built, is popular (you probably won't be the only one standing with cash in hand), the long wait time for a new build, etc., - I think it's a tall order. We essentially were doing the same thing for four years re: the Lite, and just eventually signed up for a new build. I have two friends looking for deals on a Seawind 1160 Deluxe - a boat that has been in production since 2004 - and so far what they have found is high resale price, and usually only one on the market at any given time.

Useful to know. I think I am going to request the price sheet from my areas dealer. Also a good sign that it is holding resale value. I was at Annapolis this year but unfortunately did not stop at their boats.

[alansmith]

The Atlantic cats are pretty slick also. I like their inside steer station and forward cockpit. Not everyone's cup of tea...but they are well made and performance is quite good.

[sailjumanji]

Originally Posted by alansmith

The Atlantic cats are pretty slick also. I like their inside steer station and forward cockpit. Not everyone's cup of tea...but they are well made and performance is quite good.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Chris White design. We had an Atlantic 42 in our area for years, and it was raced in long-distance offshore races with the same rating as a Corsair 27 Formula. Wonderful boat. With daggerboards, that really helped it go to weather. But for southern climate, the saloon was a bit lacking in ventilation. Beautiful lines though as well.

[RELENTLESS 1]

FWIW
We just ordered a Outremer 51 - it will be delivered summer 2020. We have been researching for 3+ years, looked at every Cat talked to every owner we could, pros/cons, new/old, $$$vs$$vs$. We thought for sure we would buy used and made a couple of offers, Privilege, Catana. We decided on the Outremer because we are 'sailors' and we felt the compromise between size (accommodations) and speed/pointing ability were best optimized in this design. We looked hard at the Seawind at Annapolis, like vegemite, it is for certain tastes. We went new because the maintenance curve tradeoff seemed more to favor new rather than redo a 3-5 year old boat that has had unknown care. Factory support was/is important and I would refer you to the Mahina site and John Neals 'Offshore Boat list'. Also Sail Wildling has an excellent website/blog on his building his 5X - very informative and he chose Outremer after owning a Catana 472 in part because of the lack of factory help - thought the owners were great. Final note on 'depreciation'. Anecdotally, we sailed on a 51 last week that the owner paid nearly full price for a 2 year old boat. Some boats really hold their value and it appears Outremer is among them. ps - we had 6.5kts and were sailing at 5kts+, where we are light air is common and this really mattered - as did daggerboards for pointing!

[le chat beaute]

Look at privilege

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by Dawntreader2

FWIW
We just ordered a Outremer 51 - it will be delivered summer 2020. We have been researching for 3+ years, looked at every Cat talked to every owner we could, pros/cons, new/old, $$$vs$$vs$. We thought for sure we would buy used and made a couple of offers, Privilege, Catana. We decided on the Outremer because we are 'sailors' and we felt the compromise between size (accommodations) and speed/pointing ability were best optimized in this design. We looked hard at the Seawind at Annapolis, like vegemite, it is for certain tastes. We went new because the maintenance curve tradeoff seemed more to favor new rather than redo a 3-5 year old boat that has had unknown care. Factory support was/is important and I would refer you to the Mahina site and John Neals 'Offshore Boat list'. Also Sail Wildling has an excellent website/blog on his building his 5X - very informative and he chose Outremer after owning a Catana 472 in part because of the lack of factory help - thought the owners were great. Final note on 'depreciation'. Anecdotally, we sailed on a 51 last week that the owner paid nearly full price for a 2 year old boat. Some boats really hold their value and it appears Outremer is among them. ps - we had 6.5kts and were sailing at 5kts+, where we are light air is common and this really mattered - as did daggerboards for pointing!

Just curious, what turned you off to the Seawind?

[RELENTLESS 1]

I wouldn't say it is any one thing, more a combination. We like the cockpit layout and the double helm station. We like that we can customize it a bit, adding a foot to the Transom, Rotating Carbon Mast etc. and the Bridgedeck clearance seems a little tight. We are Racers that will be cruising, so the Tillers to us make it like our J80 at home. Both are fast, O51 t- to us - seems a bit more fun.
Its a good boat, it will take care of you wherever you sail and will get you there a lot faster than the big 3.
Cheers

[DavidJH]

Originally Posted by Dawntreader2

I wouldn't say it is any one thing, more a combination. We like the cockpit layout and the double helm station. We like that we can customize it a bit, adding a foot to the Transom, Rotating Carbon Mast etc. and the Bridgedeck clearance seems a little tight. We are Racers that will be cruising, so the Tillers to us make it like our J80 at home. Both are fast, O51 t- to us - seems a bit more fun.
Its a good boat, it will take care of you wherever you sail and will get you there a lot faster than the big 3.
Cheers

I've been looking closer at the Outremer 45 and I'm impressed. A bit out of our current price range, but I'll definitely be checking them out next year at Annapolis if we attend again.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by Dawntreader2

FWIW
We just ordered a Outremer 51 - it will be delivered summer 2020. We have been researching for 3+ years, looked at every Cat talked to every owner we could, pros/cons, new/old, $$$vs$$vs$. We thought for sure we would buy used and made a couple of offers, Privilege, Catana. We decided on the Outremer because we are 'sailors' and we felt the compromise between size (accommodations) and speed/pointing ability were best optimized in this design. We looked hard at the Seawind at Annapolis, like vegemite, it is for certain tastes. We went new because the maintenance curve tradeoff seemed more to favor new rather than redo a 3-5 year old boat that has had unknown care. Factory support was/is important and I would refer you to the Mahina site and John Neals 'Offshore Boat list'. Also Sail Wildling has an excellent website/blog on his building his 5X - very informative and he chose Outremer after owning a Catana 472 in part because of the lack of factory help - thought the owners were great. Final note on 'depreciation'. Anecdotally, we sailed on a 51 last week that the owner paid nearly full price for a 2 year old boat. Some boats really hold their value and it appears Outremer is among them. ps - we had 6.5kts and were sailing at 5kts+, where we are light air is common and this really mattered - as did daggerboards for pointing!

During my boat shopping process I really liked the O51, and managed to get on a delivery from Tortola to the Chesapeake on one. Really impressive boat. Every boat's a compromise, and Outremer has done a brilliant job of choosing which ones, and the market agrees. That said - I hate all the hard edges Outremer uses in their interiors, it's a style that stands up very poorly and makes the boat look old quickly as those knife-like edges damage easily and the finish touch-wears off them quickly.

I'd be very careful making assumptions about price on this boat. Right now they have hit a sweet spot in the market, and they've had a 1.5 year to 2 year delivery for 4 years, and the relatively few young second hand boats are trading strongly as a result. Outremer is building them as fast as they can, and in a few more years there will be a big fleet and inevitably many more used offers. Look at the pricing on the O49 - it's really the same boat give or take a few details, and that's where the 51 is going to head to when the supply/demand bulge passes. Just saying.....

[Dolphin460]

I went through what you are going through 17 years ago. I wanted a boat to cruise and live aboard and one that could sail in all conditions. My wife said no. I had been racing mono’s and cats for 40 plus years. We rented in the Caribbean back in the 70’s and 80’s. When the first rental cats came on the market we rented one; late 1970’s and it was a Privilege 38/39. With that experience I knew a cat was the only chance I had to enter the cruising world. After looking at many different makes and designs we realized that what we both wanted was different. My wife wanted a floating home like a Lagoon, but for me that was a non starter. I could not see me going to weather at 50AWA making less that 50% of of TWS. I wanted to go to weather like a well designed mono hull. I wanted 34AWA and 60+% of TWS, and I wanted this to be the norm. Most all cats can go down wind, but few can go to weather. At the end of a 3 year search we bought a new Dolphin 460 and could not have a made a better choice. It has given my wife everthing she wanted and satisfied my sailing desires. We just finished 12 years cruising the Med and we thank our lucky starts that we purchased the right cat for us.

PS. As for water makers, we produce 55+ gals per hour and glad we do. Our cat, Finalmente was built in Brazil and we crossed to the Med and this year we will spend the summer in Greece.

Good luck in your search for the boat that will fit your needs.

[Bon Temps]

Though most of us avoid recommending a specific boat, I am going to try. First I would recommend a newish previously owned boat. Second good a little large side. A little over 40 ft like a lagoon 43 or a Seawind 1250. The Lagoons are popular because (as I have been told) France subsidies them and the prices are low but the design may not be to you liking as they are design more to the European design. Seawind is more top of the line and has more of the Australian open architecture. This price is also higher. I sail a Seawind 1160 but I notice that Lagoons are always priced significantly lower.