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Old 19-11-2014, 15:09   #61
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
New Antares 44i's are priced at $997,000 for delivery ~3 years out.
Resale pricing is currently strong and time-on-market measured in days.
Paul
Part of the demand for Antares is driven by their web site and videos. I know that boat inside and out, and that's before I stepped on board for the first time in Annapolis. Others in Annapolis we met were the same. Guys were pulling up the floor boards and showing the ladies how easy it was to change the oil and check the strainers, etc.

Another part is driven by the following their owners have. With limited hull #s, everyone kinda knows everyone. I'm guessing the 2007 Antares was Bare Feet, which sold to Fair Trade, and is now selling again...

Combine that with low availability, and we have Economics 101, supply/demand curve.

Antares 'was' our dream boat. Now our dream boat needs to meet about 5 criteria, and then it comes down to cost, which probably rules out an Antares.

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Old 19-11-2014, 15:43   #62
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

[QUOTE=D&D;1681799]Spot on. We are also aware of other reliable sources with first-hand experience supporting those (and other) troubling reports about Maverick...and confirming too that Rudi's version(s) of facts are renown to be self-serving, putting it kindly.

As impi says, there are always two sides to any 'story'. Caveat Emptor![/

Must be that Maverick may be having financial hardships? The only post Rudi made on the subject read to me that this one boat may have been a lemon. Sad as I thought of Maverick as being a well built vessel built by someone who cared.


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Old 19-11-2014, 16:00   #63
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

The unmentionable site is back up. I would post a link but.......never mind:-)


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Old 19-11-2014, 19:55   #64
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Just a thought re; the Antares... Yes it cost more but the net cost of ownership is less. The boat is incredibly well designed and their owners when ready to sell generally get close to what they paid for it.
You can't say that about many boats.
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Old 20-11-2014, 10:43   #65
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

We have been cruising in S. Pacific on our Lagoon 450 for a year now. We could not ask for anything more from our boat. Looking forward to many more years of exploring.

We've seen almost every kind and size of boat out there. Get whatever boat you like, and can afford, and start cruising. You will love it...
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Old 20-11-2014, 18:58   #66
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
The unmentionable site is back up. I would post a link but.......never mind:-)


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Yes ... see that!

Oh boy!
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Old 25-11-2014, 17:45   #67
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

No mention of the St. Francis 50. Loved the boat in Annapolis. Thoughts?
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Old 25-11-2014, 18:32   #68
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

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Yes ... see that!

Oh boy!
Whilst it is hard to know the real story at present there are certainly some question marks unfortunately ??
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Old 25-11-2014, 19:30   #69
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

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No mention of the St. Francis 50. Loved the boat in Annapolis. Thoughts?
Hi Cliff, I think the St, Francis 50 is a great 'go to sea boat' ... i also know the owner 'George' who owns and operates St Francis Marina off Stocking Island in the Bahamas. He has a wealth of knowledge around catamarans.

Still, I think they could have got a bit more 'live aboard space' for the size of boat ? That's my take on it ... I of course am accustomed to the LAgoon 440 as a live on-board Cat, and I was surprised to not get the feeling of more space in the 50 ft St Francis ... then again ... not everyone is looking for that ... I am!
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Old 26-11-2014, 22:10   #70
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Thanks Downunder and Impi. I used to live on my Leopard 47, and while I loved her I couldn't help but think of things I'd change if I had a live-aboard cat again...little things like deck-width, easy access to all thru-hulls, easy and safe engine access, etc. I also realized that I needed a linen closet, pantry, work bench, and dedicated spare parts/tool storage area. Since I have two "tween" kidsI also wanted space specific to their needs. I haven't found these on the current production cats. It seems that the ability to "build your own interior" on the St. Francis might fit the bill. I've also read about issues w St. Francis on another web site, but am not sure if the issues were specific to a few boats built in 2008 (I think) or is a continued issue. Any other insight out there? The SF50 seemed like a hell-of-boat that no one is talking about...not even in the thread on Annapolis cat boat show review. What am I missing?? Cliff
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Old 27-11-2014, 01:16   #71
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Cliff, Guess I am preparing to purchase a similar sized Cat to you.

If I was to buy new I would have Ballotta catamarans in Lima, Peru build me a Freeflow 46 setting it up for diving with onboard compressor. I watched the full build of Keshi the first and really like the concept.

Not sure now if my finances will extend to new now and my fallback may have to go 2nd hand. Amongst to possibilities are Lagoon 440, Leopard 46, Leopard 45-47, Seawind 1160 or some Crowther around that size. Interesting your feedback on the Leopard 47. Any other issues.

The FF46 is a design by Nathan Stanton the original builder of Lightwave catamarans which are considered a top class catamaran in Aus designed by Tony Grainger.

It has the room of many 50ft vessels, designed as full time live aboard, with features such as set up for solar, large tankage possibilites, water catchment built in and full weather protection. Many similar features to the Antares in a larger more modern design. Center mounted motors and bullet proof rig. Essentially Ballotta can give a custom fitout. I would use a similar saloon layout to the St Francis 50 but the saloon at 6 X 4 meters and cockpit is much larger

Ballotta is an experienced builder of resin infused cats mainly kelsall designs sourcing components from USA. Very competively priced compared with the Antares.

FreeFlow Catamarans

http://www.cata-ballotta.com/Price/FREEFLOW46.pdf

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Old 27-11-2014, 05:27   #72
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Downunder,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the Freeflow 46.
I'm stuck in Rio for a few days...if one can be "stuck" in Rio . so have plenty of time to surf the internet!

The Leopard 47 was a wonderful boat. It was an owners version that I purchased from the original owner. It was a strong sailor and a very solid boat. I just bought her too early for me...kids we're too young and ex-wife wasn't interested in my taking them on a world cruise by myself...imagine that!! ...so I could either keep my boat until they were old enough, and do all of the 10 year maintenance projects...which we're adding up, or sell her and reattack my boating dreams later. I chose the later but I don't regret my original decision to purchase as I learned many valuable lessons.

Here's a few: if you're going to own a big cat be prepared to spend lots of time looking for places to park her...this became a job in itself. Of course if you're cruising and on anchor, no problem.
Big boats equals large lines equals more money. Same w fenders.
Complex systems doesn't necessarily mean more maintenance, but does necessitate carrying spares..which equates to storage/access issues...more later.
The L47 low deck clearance (I don't recall the number) did cause some bone rattling hull slaps...I was probably out in conditions I shouldn't have been . Mind you this was on the Chesapeake bay with short period between waves...yuk.
If you've never owned a cat...be prepared to do maintenance on three engines. I do my own routine maintenance and had to set aside lots of time and more cash for three primary and three secondary fuel filters, three oil filters, three zincs (and two for the props), two alternator belts, three raw water impellers, engine oil for three and transmission oil for two. Not a huge consideration, but many seem to get wrapped up in creature comforts and forget some of the mundane but critical issues such as routine maintenance.
This leads me to engine access. I personally don't like access to the engines from the outside only. The L47 had great access to the starboard engine under the owners berth. I modified my boat to give the same access to the port side engine from under the port berth. I also had to add a boost pump to my generator. The small internal fuel pump in the Westerbeke gen set wasn't strong enough for the distance from the fuel tank. A small automotive pump/filter closer to the gen set solved my issues.
As I previously mentioned, storage space will always be an issue...but not only space, but space you can get to easily. Storage under floorboards is storage but becomes a PITA over time. The L47 owners version had great storage w easy access. I don't see the same on many of the new production boats. I did, however, get real tired of having to get on the floor to find things in my college room sized refer. This is definitely an issue for me on my next boat!!
There are soooo many other little things that you only learn by actually living on board...I don't think week-long charters bring these lessons out. Items such as keeping your home clean and bug and bird crap free, maintenance and upkeep issues I've mentioned. Ok... Now I'm rambling. Sorry.
A couple last thoughts. Access to some of the thru hulls on my L47 was terrible...mainly behind the port side forward head. I needed to be an acrobat to get to the AC and head thru hulls and strainers. This is something I'm definitely looking at on my next boat...BTW, I didn't hear many potential future boat owners ask about this in Annapolis. my opinion only...it's an important consideration.
I lived on my boat in Annapolis so had very hot/humid summers and a few weeks of sub-freezing temperatures in the winter. My solutions to those on a different thread if asked. Finally, my boat was 220v but I lived in a 110v world...caused some issues but I found workarounds...too much for this thread.

If you're looking at used...keep the L45 or 47 in mind...overall good boat!

Anyways, Happy Thanksgiving and Safe sailing to all.

Cliff
P.S. Do you know what they call a male live aboard without a girlfriend? ...Homeless.
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Old 27-11-2014, 08:34   #73
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

my 42 solaris has 4 compartments besides the head and salon ,, i moved hard to get to through thru hulls ,, i have work stations and places to store tools and stuff ,, look at the floor plans of a solaris 42 built in 1978 ,, ,, will sale right now for half what another 42 solaris is selling for ,, the transmission and shaft exposed with this v drive is a pain to work on other than that plenty of room to work ,, i removed the washer and dryer ,, the heating and air was gone when i got the boat as well as the second head ,, in panama republic of panama on a mooring ,, no need for heat or air ..
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Old 27-11-2014, 09:47   #74
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

I've just taken a Leopard 44 from Cape Town to St Martin. With three crew she was easy to handle, loads of space and got great milage on the engine. We had a few teething problems but she was new. I always thought I would get a mono but she's kinda converted me a little bit
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Old 27-11-2014, 22:31   #75
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Re: Best cat for extended cruising

Thanks CliffL for your considered response.

Guess I have been preparing long enough that I agree with your opinions. I prefer the simplicity of shaft drive over sail drive and thats one of the positives of the L45-47 and FF46. I don't rule out sail drive as thats what you get with the L440 and L46.

The FF has roomy storage all under the cockpit floor for bulky items which is a false floor similar to the Privilidge 43-45ft. Easy to make a big cupboard for water maker/ pumps in owners hull where the office in Keshi is. Also easy to organise cupboard space with good access for inverters/ electrical boards etc/access to through hulls etc in a custom build.

Found out and was not impressed with the access to through hulls that aspect of a Lagoon 400 when I had to trouble shoot no water to genset on a charter. Was impeller as expected.

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