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Old 10-01-2017, 11:44   #46
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Originally Posted by Tri View Post
Thanks much everybody for sharing your thoughts. As predicted its not an easy pick or answer.
Actually I think it is. One that is available, structurally sound, within your budget and -most importantly- that your wife/family like to live on.

I can live on anything that floats as long as it's paid off and my family is with me. Who cares if it's a lagoon, FP, catamaran or whatever... Is it ultimately important if it's a knot faster ?
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Old 10-01-2017, 13:45   #47
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Actually I think it is. One that is available, structurally sound, within your budget and -most importantly- that your wife/family like to live on.



I can live on anything that floats as long as it's paid off and my family is with me. Who cares if it's a lagoon, FP, catamaran or whatever... Is it ultimately important if it's a knot faster ?

Yes, important to some. The main reason in my mind for owning a performance based catamaran is the ability to sail in light winds while others resort to motoring.


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Old 10-01-2017, 13:51   #48
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Yes, important to some. The main reason in my mind for owning a performance based catamaran is the ability to sail in light winds while others resort to motoring.


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i can attest that with gennaker lagoon goes as fast as decent mono in sub 10 kn all the way up to 35 app.
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Old 10-01-2017, 13:58   #49
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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i can attest that with gennaker lagoon goes as fast as decent mono in sub 10 kn all the way up to 35 app.
Unfortunately that doesn't say much for a "decent mono"
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Old 10-01-2017, 14:03   #50
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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i can attest that with gennaker lagoon goes as fast as decent mono in sub 10 kn all the way up to 35 app.
Assuming that by "decent mono" you mean charter mono's, I agree. The ones which are bigger than 40 ft could be a bit faster than you. Nevertheless, you will be more comfortable, will have more space and will sail flat ..

Cheers

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Old 10-01-2017, 20:01   #51
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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I can live on anything that floats as long as it's paid off and my family is with me. Who cares if it's a lagoon, FP, catamaran or whatever... Is it ultimately important if it's a knot faster ?
How about if it's several knots faster?
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Old 10-01-2017, 20:02   #52
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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i can attest that with gennaker lagoon goes as fast as decent mono in sub 10 kn all the way up to 35 app.
You can fly your gennaker up to 35' apparent?
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:13   #53
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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You can fly your gennaker up to 35' apparent?
yes, but sea has to be near flat which is rare around sydney. in 10 knots and confused seas where one would normally start motor did 55 app at around 5 kn. Beats motoring.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:25   #54
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Assuming that by "decent mono" you mean charter mono's, I agree. The ones which are bigger than 40 ft could be a bit faster than you. Nevertheless, you will be more comfortable, will have more space and will sail flat ..

Cheers

Yeloya

looks like i do have some racing desires. Actually crushed ~ 60 ft mono in around 15-17 kn app wind with gennaker crossing here and there 9 kn.

But you right I do not know much about monos.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:39   #55
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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looks like i do have some racing desires. Actually crushed ~ 60 ft mono in around 15-17 kn app wind with gennaker crossing here and there 9 kn.

But you right I do not know much about monos.
Well, I don't want to drift the thread to usual mono/cat debate, as I am biased for cats. 9 kts in the given conditions is very good for a L400. You have trimmed very well and kept the boat light. But a 60 ft mono should be doing about the same , if not slightly better. Maybe she wasn't as good as you or was not really pushing the boat..
With my Orana I was only once overtaken by a mono. This was between St Lucia and St Vincent while I was sailing at around 10 kts. The mono was quite distant and sailing exactly to the same direction. I've checked from the AIS, she was a classical ketch of 75 ft making 14-15 kts..

Anyway, we are talking about cats now..

Cheers

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Old 11-01-2017, 12:08   #56
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

So if you guys and gals would humor me, and lets just say that budget was not a real concern in the equation, but for a crew (of mainly 2, occasional up to 4 guests) the factors were:

1) Safety
2) Comfort
3) Ability to single hand
4) Reliability/quality (I understand you'll still be fixing your boat in exotic locations, but minimizing this as best possible)
5) Fun factor
6) Load carrying

I love the livability of say the FP Helia, Lagoon 450, and Leopard 45, but completing a crossing 2-3 days sooner on a Catana or O51 could sure save a lot of wear and tear on your body. The load carrying capacity on the O51 is 8,000 lbs, to me (the novice) that is a lot of crap you would have to have in order to exceed that and start impacting the performance of the boat right? If you look at the overall cost of ownership as well, am I fooling myself to think that an Outremer or Catana will hold its value better than one of the higher production brands? In the end if you buy new and eat $250k in depreciation over 4-5 years on a $650,000 Lagoon or a $1M O51/Catana which would have been the better value? I'm guessing my thinking is off, but just wondering others thoughts.
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Old 11-01-2017, 13:43   #57
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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2) The load carrying capacity on the O51 is 8,000 lbs, to me (the novice) that is a lot of crap you would have to have in order to exceed that and start impacting the performance of the boat right? If you look at the overall cost of ownership as well, am I fooling myself to think that an Outremer or Catana will hold its value better than one of the higher production brands? In the end if you buy new and eat $250k in depreciation over 4-5 years on a $650,000 Lagoon or a $1M O51/Catana which would have been the better value? I'm guessing my thinking is off, but just wondering others thoughts.
8.000 lb or 3.700 kg of payload for O51 seems to me a bit too much, where did you get it from ? Helia, L450 type of boats have around 3.600 kg if I remember correctly althought they are 6 ft shorter. But, 51 has dagger boards and gives away app. 300-350 kg payload just for that. I don't have the numbers but I would guess the payload of Catana 47 carbon about the same or slightly better than L 450 or Helia. Just guessing..

In terms of second hand value, I agree that Catana and Outremer would keep their values a bit better than Leopard, Lagoon or FP, but difficult to say. Moreover, big cats (over 50-52 ft) whatever the brand is , keep their value better than small ones.

Cheers

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Old 11-01-2017, 13:49   #58
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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But, 51 has dagger boards and gives away app. 300-350 kg payload just for that.
Yeloya
I'm sorry but, WHAT?!?!
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Old 11-01-2017, 13:56   #59
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
8.000 lb or 3.700 kg of payload for O51 seems to me a bit too much, where did you get it from ? Helia, L450 type of boats have around 3.600 kg if I remember correctly althought they are 6 ft shorter. But, 51 has dagger boards and gives away app. 300-350 kg payload just for that. I don't have the numbers but I would guess the payload of Catana 47 carbon about the same or slightly better than L 450 or Helia. Just guessing..

In terms of second hand value, I agree that Catana and Outremer would keep their values a bit better than Leopard, Lagoon or FP, but difficult to say. Moreover, big cats (over 50-52 ft) whatever the brand is , keep their value better than small ones.

Cheers

Yeloya

Yeloya, thanks for the reply, I got the payload numbers directly from Outremer actually while doing my comparison shopping (3.6 Metric tons to be exact). In my mind the O51 is really, interior space wise, a lot like the 44' higher production cats, if not even a bit smaller. That is one of the reasons I'm considering it even though its over 50'. So if the payload is nearly identical that's good to know since going over that number will affect all these cats mentioned.

Maybe another way to ask the question is, if they were all the same price, and had same payload capacity, which one would you choose for extended cruising?
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Old 11-01-2017, 14:31   #60
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Re: Best Cat for Circumnavigation?

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Yeloya, thanks for the reply, I got the payload numbers directly from Outremer actually while doing my comparison shopping (3.6 Metric tons to be exact). In my mind the O51 is really, interior space wise, a lot like the 44' higher production cats, if not even a bit smaller. That is one of the reasons I'm considering it even though its over 50'. So if the payload is nearly identical that's good to know since going over that number will affect all these cats mentioned.

Maybe another way to ask the question is, if they were all the same price, and had same payload capacity, which one would you choose for extended cruising?

For me, out of those cats mentioned I would go for the Outremer 51. What's not to like?🤤
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