Best 40ft for full time liveaboard in SE Florida?

[rosatte]

if i had 450 grand to buy a boat last place i would be looking would be a sailing forum....for real....

[Net]

Thank you for all the great feedback guys. I will definitively look at them all at the show next year. As I said, I'm just starting and don't even have certainty on the budget I will have. I will have to charter the last two contenders before deciding which one to set aims to. The reason for posting is that the more I read and watch videos, the more confused I get about what characteristic truly matters for a live-aboard catamaran.

I've been looking at trawlers but... I think sailing is more rewarding. I'd rather spend on maintaining the rigging than on diesel.

I will also have to find a full service marina that has a spot for a live-aboard catamaran and I know it will be expensive... but the boat loan payments and slip costs won't be more than the mortgage I am paying today for a condo in Miami Beach (which I am selling so I can cash in equity and move to a boat... or at least that's the plan).

I'll check out the Manta 40.

Should I be looking at '44ft if I get to a 450 budget? Wouldn't it be too much to maintain and handle for a single liveaboard?

[HighTemp]

Originally Posted by Net

The reason for posting is that the more I read and watch videos, the more confused I get about what characteristic truly matters for a live-aboard catamaran.

In my opinion, the only ones that matter are the characteristics that matter to you and support your desired lifestyle!

[Intentional Drifter]

Hi, Net -- There is nothing more important in this endeavor than figuring out your priorities. With the possible exception of the boats oriented toward maximizing charter income, each boat's designer worked these out before ever drawing the first sketches. It's important that you match your priorities as best as possible with those of the designer's. Otherwise, you run a great risk of being unhappy after having spent a great deal of money.

E.G., you mention wanting to sail. Some cats are great sailing boats, but they compromise at least some aspects of accommodations/comfort in order to do so. Other boats have great accommodations and comfort, but don't sail worth a darn. (See my recent experience of such, here with a new Leopard 40: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2241710) I'm afraid this is more common than not with the new crop of production 40-footers.

The compromises get a bit easier with larger cats that can sail very well while still being very comfortable -- never fails, longer waterlines solve lots of problems! To go more in this direction, though, entails greater expense than you want to budget, at least in the new boat market. However, there are distinct downsides to buying new, too.

I suggest you look more toward older boats that have depreciated down to the point where you can have less compromise between space and performance. Lagoon 440's (if you're OK with the flybridge -- some love 'em, some hate 'em) perform nicely, have loads of space, and they are starting to be seen in your price range. Going a bit older still, Lagoon 470's (especially the 2001+ boats) are one of my favorites for a nice compromise and they don't have a flybridge. As Jason pointed out, if you don't need quite as much accommodation space, the Mantas are great boats, but keep in mind that they are really a 38 footer with transom extensions to improve performance. Very well made, though, easy to sail, and good performers. There's a lot to like with the Manta.

A bit more on the performance side, but still very comfortable and dropping in price are Dolphin 460's. The company is no longer in business, but really, that hardly matters since the only thing a builder really does is make the hull and install the systems, which are all made by others.

Even a bit more on the performance side, but still comfortable and well made, are St Francis 44's. Not many of them, but very strong, yet light, with great performance -- so long as you don't over-load them.

Leopard 46's are also well-performing and spacious, as well as coming down in price. Many were in charter, though, so be mindful that while a boat coming out of charter can be a good deal on price, you will also likely be looking at replacing a number of worn-out components. (Some charter base employees are notoriously hard on engines, transmissions and saildrives. Just hang around one for a few hours when a bunch of boats are coming in and watch how they abuse them.) You just have to factor those things into the price.

As always with a boat, new or used, a thorough survey is a necessity, not an option.

Also, in S. Florida, especially around the Ft Lauderdale area, often the best moorage deals are on the canals where someone is renting out space next to their house. Not as much socializing, obviously, and the landlord has to be OK with being a liveaboard, but usually cheaper than a marina.

Hope this helps.

ID

[Kenomac]

$450 should be enough to get you a Lagoon 450 with todays exchange rate. Don't know why anyone would think you are a troll, sounds to me like an excellent question.

[Net]

Such great feedback. Gotta look at those too, then. My fear, if I go bigger (if I can afford it), is that it won't be that easy to sail solo a 44/46 ft boat. Plus bigger means more expensive slip and I will prefer a full service marina because I need a postal address, parking, and some other services.

A comfy boat is a priority but it also has to be reasonably easy to handle and not too slow when taking it out for island hoping.

Thanks for the insights and tips.

[Mark424]

Originally Posted by Net

II should be researching owner version condomarans, right? It should be very easy to sail single handed.

These are all boats built for charter, living aboard is a different thing. Why constrain yourself. Don't know why one person needs 3-4 heads. The good thing about your list is they are high volume builders so have economies of scale, the bad thing is they are very price competitive so not the most durable.

Lots of options in that price range. Nautitech Open 40, Seawind 1160, Maine Cat 38 or 41. Another option to consider, look for a older Privilege, some of them were built w/ a truly stunning master stateroom between the hulls forward of the mast. so photo 38 here 1997 Privilege 37 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Net

Such great feedback. Gotta look at those too, then. My fear, if I go bigger (if I can afford it), is that it won't be that easy to sail solo a 44/46 ft boat. Plus bigger means more expensive slip and I will prefer a full service marina because I need a postal address, parking, and some other services.

A comfy boat is a priority but it also has to be reasonably easy to handle and not too slow when taking it out for island hoping.

Thanks for the insights and tips.

Net, how much single handing experience do you have? My intention is not meant to be cute.

[JasonS]

Don't forget to factor in maintenance, insurance, etc.

They all go up the bigger you get. Figure 10-20% annual cost of what you pay for the boat to spend on these in S Florida.

Also, being s single hander, forces increase exponentially. Can you dock a 44 foot cat that's 26-28 feet wide. Mast height is another consideration down here. You likely want to be intracoasal friendly.

Are all lines led to helm or do you have a winch port and starboard for job? Is job self tacking? Etc.

Have fun. Took us 2+ years of looking at FPs, lagoons, privilege, leopards, seawinds, admirals, Mantas, etc. until we made our final decision. Then it took almost another 9+ months to find the right one at a price that met our needs.

Take your time. Enjoy the journey. What you think is most important when you start may not be so when you finish.

For example, console beds are pretty, but you can roll off the bed offshore. Our Manta has one queen bed that is facing fore/aft and one that is port/starboard. No matter how a anchorage is, we have a bed that is comfortable. Beds not as pretty, but very functional.

Lots and lots of examples. That's just one. Happy Thanksgiving

[Net]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Net, how much single handing experience do you have? My intention is not meant to be cute.

Only Laser... looong time ago. By the time I buy the boat I should have some (courses and chartering).

[Net]

Originally Posted by JasonS

Also, being s single hander, forces increase exponentially. Can you dock a 44 foot cat that's 26-28 feet wide. Mast height is another consideration down here. You likely want to be intracoasal friendly.

Are all lines led to helm or do you have a winch port and starboard for job? Is job self tacking? Etc.

Indeed. A 40ft with enough mast clearance for the ICW, right? All lines to the helm and self tacking jib should be priority. But that would leave out the 400 S2 and others...

Happy Thanks Giving.

[Mark424]

Originally Posted by Net

Indeed. A 40ft with enough mast clearance for the ICW, right? All lines to the helm and self tacking jib should be priority. But that would leave out the 400 S2 and others...

Happy Thanks Giving.

Not to beat up on the charter boats (again), but remember they are under a lot of market pressure to pack in a lot of stuff into a short (not small) package. Length doesn't equate to size and ease of handling You'll find the Lagoon 40 is a really big boat, compared to say a Seawind 1160.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

[JasonS]

Yes. You have 65 feet clearance except at Tuttle Bridge between ft Lauderdale and Miami where you must go on outside. only 55ft there.

Try to arrange some demo sails at Miami boat show so you can get on the water. Recommend water sailing">Blue Water Sailing School in Ft Lauderdale. Like Capt Jaye Melanson

[akprb]

Here's what I found, bigger was easier 😉

Always found slips and haul out.

Great singlehanded.

Yes, costs a bit more 😉

[blewett_john]

Originally Posted by Net

Such great feedback. Gotta look at those too, then. My fear, if I go bigger (if I can afford it), is that it won't be that easy to sail solo a 44/46 ft boat. Plus bigger means more expensive slip and I will prefer a full service marina because I need a postal address, parking, and some other services.

A comfy boat is a priority but it also has to be reasonably easy to handle and not too slow when taking it out for island hoping.

Thanks for the insights and tips.

I have a Searunner 37 trimaran. It was homebuilt in 1987 and is glassed over plywood. It is a simple boat that was not expensive. Typically these boats sell for $35k to $65k, some with better living spaces than others. As for "not too slow" hull no.2 won the Transpac some where around 1972, sailed by John Marples the co-designer.

The reason I bring this up is because this is my thinking: If you are not sure what kind of boat you want a Searunner 37 could be a good choice for you. They have a center cockpit with the mast stepped in it (mast height above the waterline is about 50'). All the lines/controls are within reach of the wheel which makes single handling easy. They have a forward cabin which is the "sleeping" space, and the head. The aft cabin is the saloon and galley. Some have another bunk here, some don't. The navigation station is also here. Typically the boats have a small diesel as the auxiliary power, mine had a 28hp Volvo model 2003.

Check out my link https://buildingmytrimaran.shutterfly.com/ where you can see the pictures of my boat. You will also see the issues that come with an old wood boat if you don't get a proper survey. There are also many links to other Searunners. Anyway, a Searunner could be a good starter boat for you that won't break the bank and let you know if being a live aboard is for you.

John B.