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Old 16-12-2007, 23:21   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
Dan,
I don't know whether, you are being serious with your statement, but yes i believe that is exactly what I have seen with the prototypes.
Beau - I was refraining from answering because, yes I was being serious as a theory, but no I don't think it will work.

To create the "bulge" that you will surf on takes power. more bulge = more power.

The last identifiable "aha!" that I can see is the bulb front on tankers. We have 10-15 tankers a day go right by our club. The ones with the bulbs make incredibly smaller wakes. Some of the ones without bulbs create wakes the kids surf on at the beach.

I like the idea of rigging up a moveable ballast to get some quantifiable measurements.
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Old 17-12-2007, 00:20   #107
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With the prototypes, I threw a powder over the side, on the sides of the hulls underway. The powder was sucked underneath the hull, towards the rear of the boat. This definitely does NOT happen with a convential hull.
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Old 19-12-2007, 07:46   #108
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Which says that there is negative pressure under the hull...

Cheers,

Walter
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Old 22-12-2007, 22:38   #109
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I have very much enjoyed reading the thread.

I am sure many of you have seen this boat. This link has a ton of info on making a very efficient power boat.
SetSail.com - the serious cruising sailor's website
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Old 22-12-2007, 23:08   #110
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Quote:
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Which says that there is negative pressure under the hull...

Cheers,

Walter
And for the world to stay in balance and not tip off it's axis means there has to be a positive pressure somewhere...
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Old 04-03-2008, 16:36   #111
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beaus' boat

It has been a while since i have been on this forum, so I thought I would give an update.

With two Honda 30 outboards and a change of props I now get 10 knots with NO bow wave formation.

I have been playing around with weight distribution etc but it is now obvious that I need more power to get the 15 knots I am looking for. So I will probably get a 120 hp outboard.
The main problem is the extra weight we accumulated that we are are not prepared to shed.( extra batteries and washing machine,etc )

Christine and I are living on the boat in Cleveland Brisbane Australia.
I still havn't rigged up the sail and we are moored at a marina with the outrigger floats folded in (in a monohull berth)

I enjoy living board (my first liveaboard) Christine gets cabin fever sometimes but we do have a large semi enclosed aft deck where we spend most of the time reading, laying in a hammock and sundowners.
The interior is still not completely finished and I am working part time so that our cruising plans are on hold for the time being. This summer the weather has been atrocious here with high winds or rain. However I have found the liveaboard concept works for me and the marina fees are reasonable,which includes power and water, plus a great position. Lots of yachting friends who drop over at sundown for the free homemade vodka.

At this stage we may shelve the cruising to the islands off New Guinea and send the boat in a 40 ft shipping container straight to the mediterranean and the canals of europe for a year or two.

thanks for all the help and support from members
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Old 04-03-2008, 16:42   #112
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It sounds like "Life is Good".
More power too you man.

Paul
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Old 04-03-2008, 19:44   #113
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I have been wondering how things are coming along with your boat. The trip to Europe sounds like an excellent idea. I don't recall but I am guessing you could motor in protected water with the amas retracted. Check on the speed limit they have in the European canals as you may not even be able to hit 15 knots. On the Erie Canal here in the U.S. it is 10 knots.
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Old 04-03-2008, 21:51   #114
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Hi Steve,
Yes that is the idea, retract the floats when we are in the canals, so we are only 11 ft wide.
You are right, I won't need more than about 5-6 knots in the canals.
The idea of 15 knots is just to prove a point of design, that you can achieve 15 knots with a 40 ft boat in displacement mode. with relatively low hp and fuel consumption
I probably will cruise at 9-10 knots for economics but I like to be able to have extra power and speed available if I need it.
For example quite often when cruising we wait for calm conditions before leaving and then find there is not enough wind to sail. I hope to be able to use the higher speed when conditions are perfect or when I want to avoid a storm front coming through, or make it to an anchorage before dark.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:16   #115
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Wedge Shaped Hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
This is what I am planning and is almost completed.

Trimaran Motor Cruiser with sail assist (downwind)
12 meter (39ft long X 19ft wide+Swing wing 10 ft folded (marina).
Only 2.3 meters wide for shipping.
NEW CONCEPT Super efficient fast displacement hull
10 knot cruising speed at $5.00 /hour (aussie prices)
20 knots at $15.00/hour
Non planing and non healing, Comfortable motion.
Range 2,000 nautical miles at 10 knots
Two Petrol or two Diesel outboards, currenly fitted
with two Honda 30 hp outboards
+Fits inside a 40ft container
+Aluminium heavy plate construction
+Trailable (on the back of a truck)
+Shallow draft (1 ft)
+Sail assist,
+Double decker construction for maximum room
+Large fridge and freezer
+9000 btu Air conditioning
+Watermaker desalinator
+Large 200 amp Alternator driven by a 13 HP Chonda,
+800 amp hour AGM battery bank
+Large aft deck
+Flybridge
+Full foam insulation
+Ideal liveaboard for two, suitable for four
+World cruiser.
Cruise to Singapore and then ship it home
Ship to Tahiti, cruise home.
Ship to the Mediterrean,fold the outriggers (10 ft
wide)and cruise the Canals of Europe.


Now to answer some of the questions.
ssullivan, thank you for your kind words.
This is NOT a planning powerboat that rides on the surface of the water, is is fast displacement with a very narrow bow that cuts through the waves.
The angle of entry is less than half the angle of Dashews boat. Yes it will be a wet boat, and it is designed to take waves over the bow. However it will not throw a lot of spray, as even above the waterline the bow is esentially vertical but sharply angled backward.
I do not believe the boat will pound because it is not travelling on top of the waves.




An intereresting aspect was seen in regard to the stern wave with the wedge type hull. (with the prototypes) at under ten knots the stern wave has quite large but as the water started to break from the stern (at about 14 knots) the stern wave flattened out completely, the boat actually seemed to raise up in the water a little, we achived 20knots with two large people on board a 15 ft Plywood prototype with a 8 hp outboard.
No bow wave was formed, the water flow along the sides of the boat showed little or no turbulence (which is why there was no bow wave).

Yes I think we are in love with curves, everyboy wants to have a nice looking boat. I am hoping that when my boat is on the water it will all come together and look pretty good.
Remember, the underwater surface of planning boats have been flat or deep veed, flat since 1948. (Raymond Hunt)
I only have time at the moment to add this reference discussion. I'll come back an add more later.

Your use of the word 'wedge' caught my attention. Have a look at another wedge shaped hull design that I discuss here:
Sea Knife
YachtForums.Com - View Single Post - Trimarans and the BladeRunner...
and look at the two other postings #46, #48
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:39   #116
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Seems to me that a flat bottom would do just fine in a flat sea. I wonder what the entry would be like in a big seaway going to weather. I have been on a number of monohulls that have relatively flat bottoms that pound and crash uncomfortably in those conditions.
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Old 02-09-2009, 15:28   #117
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Liam,

I have to admit I have not been out in winds over 20 knots with the boat so far.
However my experience in 15 knots of wind and 1.5 meter seas (with what we call a short chop that is waves are close together) is that the very fine entry overcomes any pounding my the fact that we slice through the waves and don't rise up the same as a boat with full bows. The boat is designed to take water over the bows, though we haven't seen that yet.

I started out with the concept of developing a live aboard boat (with comfort)
That begins with any leg of a cruise in calm weather (the is no rough weather if you don't have schedule). Initially I motor only, at an economical speed, if the wind increases I will motor /sail and maybe reach a point of sailing only. If the conditions increase, I will motor only.
The concept is a true Motor/Sailor.

However, I do like to have the ability to cruise at 15-20 knots if I see a strong weather change or I want to get to an anchorage before dark etc.

The boat is not designed to sail around the world. It is designed to be shipped by truck or shipped by sea in a shipping container anywhere in the world.

My current plan is to motor/sail up the East coast of Australia to Thursday island / Darwin/East timor/ Indonesia/ Malaysia and then containerise the boat in Singapore for transit to Marseilles for the Mediterannean and the Canals of Europe. This is what the boat is designed for.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:11   #118
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Those Mathmaticians !!

Beau wrote to me via an email
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau
The original "double wedge" design concept came from a patent put out by Alberto Calderon USA patent number 6158369 Dec 12 2000.
You can get an extract from www.delphion.com which is free but the full patent may cost a couple of dollars to download.
Alberto Calderon is a mathematician and worked for the America's cup team.
The patent is a bit heavy going, and essentially deals with large ships.

I built a number of 15 ft plywood prototypes to test his concepts, and it does work. However the problem is (and I think he has found the same thing) how do you put those principles into a practical boating solution.
Interesting Beau. It turns out the Peter Payne who developed the SeaKnife concept was also a very accomplished mathematician.

And he experienced those same problems in marketing an 'unusual idea' to the boating public. Fortunately he worked with some defense contractors here in the Wash DC area, and pitched a lot of these ideas to the Navy...got some monies for prototypes as well.

I knew of some of his original work here on the Chesapeake Bay while I was involved at the time with Navy submarines. My interest was rekindled recently when I began to look for new RIB ideas. I've developed a few concepts, but the market is not ready.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:24   #119
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Canals of Europe

Beau,
I saw where you mentioned your desire to cruise the canals of Europe. I've harbored that desire myself for quite a few years.

I suppose you have searched this forum for some info?
French Canals
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...als-15352.html

I would suggest this lenthy discussion as well:
Dutch Barge, long distance cruisers
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:38   #120
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worth noting that there are specific certificates required for the french canals - but only if you are in your own vessel. If you are skipper of a charter vessel (presumably with a lot less experience), you do not need that certificate
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